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View Poll Results: Does scripture "spell out" what is right and what is wrong? (Multi answers.)
Yes. 16 47.06%
No. 5 14.71%
Sometimes. 13 38.24%
It prepares us so that we can know the difference. 18 52.94%
What is right, is right for all. What is wrong, is wrong for all. 3 8.82%
Scripture states that what is right for one, may be wrong for another. We should discern. 13 38.24%
Who the heck cares? 1 2.94%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 34. You may not vote on this poll

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Unread 12-23-2005, 10:01 AM   #1
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Is black, black? Is white white? What is profanity? Or do we know?

Quote:
Originally Posted by airon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vituperator
Col 3:8 is a good one. What about Col 4:6,1Ti 4:12, ___ 2:8. I do not think anyone can argue that cursing is anything less than reproachful.

Personally, I need not discuss the matter, for my mind is made up. This is one of the "black and white" matters. It is either right, or it is wrong. If it does not glorify the Father, it is wrong.

Though I am no less guilty than any other, I will not attempt to justify such a thing as cursing. There is no justification for foul language.
Those are great scriptures, but I don't see how any of them apply to the use of what our society considers to be profanity.

I respect your decision not to discuss this further, but before you go declaring "black and white" on something like this you might wish to consider how a single word can be good in one culture and bad in another. Are some words inherently sinful, or just the way we use them? And if it's just the way we use them, couldn't any turn of phrase be used sinfully?

I appreciate your personal conviction of attempting to refrain from using words our culture considers as "profrane," but you will be hard pressed to show how your decision should apply to anyone besides yourself. And as to what does or does not glorify God, again, I don't think that is quite so "black and white."

In Christ,

airon
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Originally Posted by airon

I respect your decision not to discuss this further, but before you go declaring "black and white" on something like this you might wish to consider how a single word can be good in one culture and bad in another. Are some words inherently sinful, or just the way we use them? And if it's just the way we use them, couldn't any turn of phrase be used sinfully?


I guess I am a fundamentalist concerning this matter. When I make such a statement, I mean it in the "biblical sense." In other words, I firmly believe that "nothing of itself is sin.(inherently sinful)" The word damn for example. I can say God damns the unrepentant sinner, which would most assuredly be a true statement and not profane. On the other hand, if I were to state, "God damn it!" and that would, in a biblical sense, be profane, for it came from the bitterness of my heart.

Even the word f_ck, though generally used in a sinful manor, is not inherently sinful, (though this forum must consider it so, because when I write it out, they star it out.) for example, I might inform you that the word fu_k was once an accepted word in the English language, meaning fornication under the concent of the king.

This particular word, just like the word n_gger has absolutely no constructive use in todays society.

Don't get me wrong. I agree with you. Yet and still, I do not beleive there is any excuse for PROFANITY. Profanity (cursing) is profanity(cursing.) Black is black, and white is white. The fact that some do or do not classify various words as profanity, makes these particular words no more or no less what they are.

Profanity
Main Entry:2curse
Function:verb
Inflected Form:cursed ; cursing
Date:before 12th century

transitive senses
1 : to use profanely insolent language against : BLASPHEME
2 a : to call upon divine or supernatural power to send injury upon b : to execrate in fervent and often profane terms
3 : to bring great evil upon : AFFLICT
intransitive senses : to utter imprecations : SWEAR
synonyms see EXECRATE


If we lived by the word of God, there would be no nessisity for attempting to define "black and white," for all would know and accept black as black, and white as white. The problem is that all do not know, and many of those who do know, would rather create doubt and confusion, and therefor change the meaning of right and wrong (blach & white).

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Unread 12-23-2005, 10:56 AM   #2
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With all due respect to the study, time, and thought you have put into this topic, I must disagree.

Words have meanings. That is all they are good for, conveying meaning.

Some words, once imbued with a meaning, always convey evil intent when spoken, and therefore become "sinful," at least for an age.

Similarly, lies are evil. The words used in the lie may have no evil meaning individually, but put together the lie is always evil.

God is greater than any given language or time period. He did not give us an actual list of evil words--that was for man to impose upon himself. If we did not make them up, they would not be evil.

God gave us principles of communication. Communicate nothing silly, coarse, or titilating. Do not call evil good, nor good evil. Once a society has deemed a word as "evil" (assuming the Bible also refers to the same topic as evil) then it is foolish (sinful?) for a Christian to flaunt that word as if it were not evil.
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Unread 12-23-2005, 11:44 AM   #3
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I voted "yes", "sometimes", and "it prepares us to know the difference".

There are obviously many things that the Bible strictly forbids:
- murder
- adultry

There are things that are black and white:
- alcohol consumption

We should be vigilant and on constant guard so that we exercise wisdom in all of our actions. Lying, for example, is clearly against what God would have His people do, but there are times when Godly wisdom would require a lie (Rahab comes to mind, or people in WWII who helped the Jews). I once heard a preacher make the statement, "we should ask ourselves if something's right or wrong, but is it holy". Well, I'm not so sure about that statement, but I'd put a bit of a spin on it, if it is not clearly outlined in Scripture as being right or wrong, then we should ask ourselves more accurately, "is it wise?"
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Unread 12-23-2005, 12:05 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisHarbison
I voted "yes", "sometimes", and "it prepares us to know the difference".

There are obviously many things that the Bible strictly forbids:
- murder
- adultry

There are things that are black and white:
- alcohol consumption

We should be vigilant and on constant guard so that we exercise wisdom in all of our actions. Lying, for example, is clearly against what God would have His people do, but there are times when Godly wisdom would require a lie (Rahab comes to mind, or people in WWII who helped the Jews). I once heard a preacher make the statement, "we should ask ourselves if something's right or wrong, but is it holy". Well, I'm not so sure about that statement, but I'd put a bit of a spin on it, if it is not clearly outlined in Scripture as being right or wrong, then we should ask ourselves more accurately, "is it wise?"

Hi Chris. Did I word this post so poorly?
I am refering to the use of particular words commonly known as cuss words, not the actions which they represent...
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Unread 12-23-2005, 12:07 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vituperator
Hi Chris. Did I word this post so poorly?
I am refering to the use of particular words commonly known as cuss words, not the actions which they represent...
My apologies, no, you didn't post it poorly, it was the wording of the poll that led me to think it was about sin in general.

*EDIT*
That being said, we can apply that same principle to how we speak and what words we choose to use to communicate.

Is it wise to use the f-word in front of a bunch of kids at church? No, it's rather foolish. Can the f-word be used in a way that's not sinful? Yes, I think you can make an effect argument that it can be. We have to constantly be on our guard with our words. "Is what I'm about to say wise, or should I word my thoughts differently?"
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Last edited by ChrisHarbison; 12-23-2005 at 12:20 PM.
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Unread 12-23-2005, 12:18 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swordfish7
With all due respect to the study, time, and thought you have put into this topic, I must disagree.

Words have meanings. That is all they are good for, conveying meaning.

Some words, once imbued with a meaning, always convey evil intent when spoken, and therefore become "sinful," at least for an age.

Similarly, lies are evil. The words used in the lie may have no evil meaning individually, but put together the lie is always evil.

God is greater than any given language or time period. He did not give us an actual list of evil words--that was for man to impose upon himself. If we did not make them up, they would not be evil.

God gave us principles of communication. Communicate nothing silly, coarse, or titilating. Do not call evil good, nor good evil. Once a society has deemed a word as "evil" (assuming the Bible also refers to the same topic as evil) then it is foolish (sinful?) for a Christian to flaunt that word as if it were not evil.
Aw... But do all words mean the same thing to everyone? Wouldn't it depend solely on how they are used in the context of speech?

A lie is an action. The word lie is not a curse word.
The word s_hit, damn, f_ck, all discribe actions. Most consider them all curse words. Are these words sinful of themselves, or does it depend on how they are used?

Help me out here airon. For some reason I seem not to be communicating the substance of this post.
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Unread 12-23-2005, 12:38 PM   #7
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Whether or not a word is sinful to use depends very much on context. In some cultures, a specific word is always wrong to use. In another culture or time, it may be okay. It also depends very much on the intent of the user of the word. Words are only words because of the power behind them. But if you say something with no wrong intent but someone takes it wrong, was it wrong to say? According to that person, yes, because things are only as they appear.
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Unread 12-23-2005, 12:45 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swordfish7
With all due respect to the study, time, and thought you have put into this topic, I must disagree.

Words have meanings. That is all they are good for, conveying meaning.

Some words, once imbued with a meaning, always convey evil intent when spoken, and therefore become "sinful," at least for an age.

Similarly, lies are evil. The words used in the lie may have no evil meaning individually, but put together the lie is always evil.

God is greater than any given language or time period. He did not give us an actual list of evil words--that was for man to impose upon himself. If we did not make them up, they would not be evil.

God gave us principles of communication. Communicate nothing silly, coarse, or titilating. Do not call evil good, nor good evil. Once a society has deemed a word as "evil" (assuming the Bible also refers to the same topic as evil) then it is foolish (sinful?) for a Christian to flaunt that word as if it were not evil.
Bear in mind that Paul uses the word "skubla" (sp?) which is the Greek equivolent to the English "$hit". The words carry the same intensity and filth, yet Paul seemed to think it was an appropriate use of that word where and when he used it.

Now, I'm not advocating walking around and cussing like a drunken Irishman, but I think there are times when words that are considered to be profane can be used appropriately whilst communicating.
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Unread 12-23-2005, 12:55 PM   #9
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Like, if there's no other word that carries the intensity of what we are trying to get across? I don't know about that.... words are very powerful, I don't think we need to use profanity to get our point across. What was Paul referring to when he used that word?
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Unread 12-23-2005, 01:04 PM   #10
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"Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ." (Philip. 3:8 (ESV))

The word Paul uses that's translated to "rubbish" in the ESV and more accurately "dung" in the KJV is the Greek word "skubalon". If the Romans had bumper stickers for chariots back then, they'd have had a sticker that reads "skubalon happens". The two words are the same.
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Unread 12-23-2005, 01:32 PM   #11
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Wow. So he's contrasting the Kingdom of Heaven with the things of the world, and refers to them as "skubalon" to show how much the world sucks in comparison. That's quite interesting. The Bible, the inerrent word of God, contains the equivelent of the word sh*t to show the intensity of a contrast.
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Unread 12-23-2005, 02:16 PM   #12
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Quote:
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Wow. So he's contrasting the Kingdom of Heaven with the things of the world, and refers to them as "skubalon" to show how much the world sucks in comparison. That's quite interesting. The Bible, the inerrent word of God, contains the equivelent of the word sh*t to show the intensity of a contrast.
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how much the world sucks in comparison
This is an excellent example... Though perhaps a little off topic, yet closely related to my original topic.
Now the term "sucks" is, by no ones deffinition, is a curse word, yet, being an ex-sailor, that word once meant "oral sex" to me. I firmly believe this is where the term came from, and though many claim to use it not in a profane manor, I consider it a profane statement. I believe that many use words and slang which they haven't the slightest notion what they mean. The word "friggin" is a good example. Now what does that word put you in mind of?

Now. May I ask just what it is that you mean when you state that the world sucks, and just why "sucking" would be negative? Babies suck. You suck. I suck. We all suck. Why do you state that the world sucks, in a negative sense?
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Unread 12-23-2005, 02:27 PM   #13
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Yes, the was I used the word "sucks" was depending on the readers to interpret it by it's connotation laid out by today's culture, not literal definition. Because, for one thing, the world cannot literally "suck"
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Unread 12-23-2005, 02:43 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vituperator
for example, I might inform you that the word fu_k was once an accepted word in the English language, meaning fornication under the concent of the king.
This is generally considered an urban legend - I've heard linguistic experts assert that "f_ck" probably comes from the Middle English f(u)cken, to strike, move quickly, penetrate, or perhaps the Middle Dutch fokken.
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Unread 12-23-2005, 07:17 PM   #15
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Yes, the was I used the word "sucks" was depending on the readers to interpret it by it's connotation laid out by today's culture, not literal definition. Because, for one thing, the world cannot literally "suck"
Ha... If it didn't, I guess we would all be floating in space...
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