Alcohol Consumption? (formerly "Baptists and Drinking")

Symbiotic · 06-22-2006, 06:29 PM

although, remember what Jesus' first miracle was?...i'm not saying there are no rules about alcohol....just that it's ok to drink some...hey, i just finished an MGD(yes, i am legal age in AB)...i'm not drunk, not even close....i haven't done anything wrong....it's when you get stupid about it...

**thesteve** · 06-22-2006, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Symbiotic

although, remember what Jesus' first miracle was?...i'm not saying there are no rules about alcohol....just that it's ok to drink some...hey, i just finished an MGD(yes, i am legal age in AB)...i'm not drunk, not even close....i haven't done anything wrong....it's when you get stupid about it...

actually you did do something wrong. you drank an MGD and were proud of it.

Symbiotic · 06-22-2006, 06:52 PM

no, i was simply stating a fact...and what's wrong with being "proud of it" as you say...what if i was proud of having just drank a Pepsi?

**thesteve** · 06-22-2006, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Symbiotic

no, i was simply stating a fact...and what's wrong with being "proud of it" as you say...what if i was proud of having just drank a Pepsi?

MGD is barely beer. it's more like water flavored alcohol...maybe proud isn't the word i was quite looking for...I just don't think that drinking MGD is something I'd want people knowing about. I would've put the name of a good beer in there, or just said, "i just drank a beer"

Lightknight · 06-22-2006, 09:19 PM

So then... why are the ones against Alcohol against it?

bobthecockroach · 06-22-2006, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightknight

So then... why are the ones against Alcohol against it?

Makes 'em feel more moral?

Big_Mike · 06-23-2006, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USGold

Personally I rarely drink-but this is a personal chioce I make--yes i agree with Pauls advise as recorded in Timothy --and I conclude by say that even our Lord enjoyed a drink now and then--remember the biblical model-moderation in all things.

this is slightly off-topic, but that's not a biblical concept, it's an ancient Greek one.

i was raised baptist, and still consider myself one (albeit, one that tries to hold to the stated precepts of baptism and not what the Southern Baptist Convention or so forth seem to think being a baptist is about), and i'll also say that i not only drink, i have been drunk, even recently.

i'll also admit that the morality of the issue is not one i've put enough thought into to have any great insights. so i don't know. i will say that being completely drunk is not a great deal of fun, much less is it productive or worthwhile. i have little problem understanding a problem with that kind of behavior, but a few beers or some wine is hardly something to get bent over.

Symbiotic · 06-23-2006, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thesteve

MGD is barely beer. it's more like water flavored alcohol...maybe proud isn't the word i was quite looking for...I just don't think that drinking MGD is something I'd want people knowing about. I would've put the name of a good beer in there, or just said, "i just drank a beer"

Well, gennerally i'm more of a Molson Canadian, Kookanee, or Corona guy...if that makes it better....

Tony · 06-23-2006, 08:49 AM

By the way, here is the resolution on alcohol that the SBC passed at their annual meeting this month.

Demon_Hunter · 06-23-2006, 09:02 AM

I cant say that I agree with most of that resolution.

I mean, the list of the effects of alchol are true, but those are only true of alchohol abuse, not merely the use of alchohol.

I dont agree that it is a misinterpretation of scripture to believe that we may consume alchohol as part of our freedom in Christ. And I definately dont see why we should restrict people who consume alchohol from serving in high positions in the church. There is nothing in scripture to lead us to believe that people who consume alchohol cannot properly serve the church. Now, if they are getting drunk (whether frequently, or infrequently), then no they cannot serve in high positions in the church.

Tony · 06-23-2006, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by demon_hunter

I cant say that I agree with most of that resolution.

I mean, the list of the effects of alchol are true, but those are only true of alchohol abuse, not merely the use of alchohol.

I dont agree that it is a misinterpretation of scripture to believe that we may consume alchohol as part of our freedom in Christ. And I definately dont see why we should restrict people who consume alchohol from serving in high positions in the church. There is nothing in scripture to lead us to believe that people who consume alchohol cannot properly serve the church. Now, if they are getting drunk (whether frequently, or infrequently), then no they cannot serve in high positions in the church.

No argument from me. I think the SBC is misguided here, relying more on the Church Covenant of 100 years ago than scripture.

Demon_Hunter · 06-23-2006, 09:31 AM

I just read the passage from proverbs that SBC references in that resolution. That passage directly relates to drunkeness, not the biblical patern of moderation in drinking, and eating.

**thesteve** · 06-23-2006, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Symbiotic

Well, gennerally i'm more of a Molson Canadian, Kookanee, or Corona guy...if that makes it better....

I'm not familiar with the first two, but Corona is the horse pee of Mexican beer.

tlj009 · 06-23-2006, 10:20 AM

I don't think that the key point is whether drinking in and of itself is wrong, but the effects of drinking. Getting drunk is not the only effect of drinking. It also hurts your witness if someone who does believe it is wrong sees you. Also I refer back to my previous post in that if it causes a brother to stumble, don't do it.

As far a people in a position of leadership (pastors,decons, etc.), 1Timothy 3 says
[1] This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
[2] A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
[3] Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
[4] One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
[5] (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
[6] Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
[7] Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
[8] Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
[9] Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
[10] And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
[11] Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
[12] Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
[13] For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.
[14] These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly:
[15] But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
[16] And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Verse 3 tells me that a bishop, pastor, etc. should not drink. Verse 8 tells me that deacons should never drink enough to get drunk "not given to much wine".

I think that the leaders have more responsibility than the congregation, but shouldn't we all strive to be worthy of being a pastor or deacon or someone else in a leadership role?

Demon_Hunter · 06-23-2006, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlj009

I don't think that the key point is whether drinking in and of itself is wrong, but the effects of drinking. Getting drunk is not the only effect of drinking. It also hurts your witness if someone who does believe it is wrong sees you. Also I refer back to my previous post in that if it causes a brother to stumble, don't do it.

As far a people in a position of leadership (pastors,decons, etc.), 1Timothy 3 says
[1] This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
[2] A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
[3] Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
[4] One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
[5] (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
[6] Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
[7] Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
[8] Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
[9] Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
[10] And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
[11] Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
[12] Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
[13] For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.
[14] These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly:
[15] But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
[16] And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Verse 3 tells me that a bishop, pastor, etc. should not drink. Verse 8 tells me that deacons should never drink enough to get drunk "not given to much wine".

I think that the leaders have more responsibility than the congregation, but shouldn't we all strive to be worthy of being a pastor or deacon or someone else in a leadership role?

If you believe it hurts your witness then do it in private. The whole point of verses like this, and the one in 1Cor is to ensure that the faith of a younger, or less experienced believer is not harmed by the maturity of the older, more experienced believers, whose faith is secure.