george w bush

Qingu · 10-17-2005, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charlie

Let me ask you this : what if next year China decides to invade the USA, overthrow the gov't and occupy the country. They say : "Bush is an evil dictator, and he commited crimes against his own people in New Orleans." Now , what would america say then, in the court of world opinion. Wouldn't that be exactly the same thing the Usa did to the people of Iraq.

No, because we invaded Iraq with the pretense of finding WMDs. When this reason turned out to be faulty, we invented a new reason (Saddam is a horrible dictator who kills many of his citizens) as justification. This reason was an incredibly poor and hypocritical reason to invade Iraq; however it is a reason that is based in reality. "George Bush is an evil dictator" is not a reason based in reality, and the crimes he's committed against his people are nowhere near the scale of what Saddam did.

Seriously, dude. Lay off the hyperbole.

charlie · 10-17-2005, 04:14 PM

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Originally Posted by Qingu

Charlie, once again (as a fellow liberal) I completely disagree with your mindset.

It's good to have a plethora of opinions here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qingu

I think you need to take Moore's films with a grain of salt. Make that coarse-grained kosher salt. Didn't Moore's use of that soldier's mom in F9/11 seem petty and opportunistic? Don't you squirm every time Moore talks about poor ol' Flint Michigan with the road signs named after Ivy Leagues ... as if he's blatantly trying to manipulate the audience?

the army mom and the ivy league thing was kind of propagandic I'll give you that. However, there are important points made even in those bits.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qingu

I certainly think it's possible that Moore cares about the people behind his ideological issues. But the man is more of a propogandist than a humanitarian. Why do you worship him so much? It really seems like your whole opinion of America is based off of Michael Moore's diatribes.

I don't even like Michael Moore. I think he's kinda of a jerk who lives in a perceived reality. However, when standing next to Bush he looks like a good option. I was trying to defend the content (Bush-wise) of his films, not heap praise on him as an individual.

charlie · 10-17-2005, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qingu

No, because we invaded Iraq with the pretense of finding WMDs. When this reason turned out to be faulty, we invented a new reason (Saddam is a horrible dictator who kills many of his citizens) as justification. This reason was an incredibly poor and hypocritical reason to invade Iraq; however it is a reason that is based in reality. "George Bush is an evil dictator" is not a reason based in reality, and the crimes he's committed against his people are nowhere near the scale of what Saddam did.

Seriously, dude. Lay off the hyperbole.

I don't believe in the reason that I said China would give. I was asking if the situation would be akin, that's all.

Cadence · 10-17-2005, 04:26 PM

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Originally Posted by charlie

His C average was in high school.

so, effing, what!? the point still remains. you're being contradictory...stop it at once.

**Sean** · 10-17-2005, 05:15 PM

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Originally Posted by Christian_Rock7

Yeah Bush is deffinitally better then Kerry BY FAR. I mean his biggest compliment to himself was that he had 3 purple hearts ( shows how great a soldier he was.) I mean a guy that got himself shot 3 times would be leading our military. Scary thought.

Yeah....thats terrible? All thee solidiers that have died in wars are awful people because they got themselves killed?

grand_master_d · 10-17-2005, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charlie

earlier in the thread you failed to prove any of these "lies" and "misquotes"

Sorry, no. I did not. Not only are there complete and obvious lies in the documentary (see Current Events for more), anytime Moore cleverly edits, takes snippets of quotes, manipulates the unknowing... he is lying. His whole deal on Florida, the campaign party, FOX News... yes, some facts were true... his overall picture of what happened as depicted in his documentary: Lie.

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In F9/11 he showed great care for the soldiers, as he did for the youth of the nation in Bowling. The point he made about soldiers were that they are disadvantaged, often poor young people that army recruiters prey on. (as seen in flint during the movie).

I'd love to get into this... but no. I need to leave for the night. Thanks Qingu... Cadence...

7jesusfreak7 · 10-17-2005, 07:16 PM

i support him he does not lie and most stuff is not hi folt. so i think he is fine.

JerryLove · 10-17-2005, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneHope

What does America stand for anyways? Because whatever it is, I can't figure it out. I mean, at one time you guys stood for freedom and justice but times have changed.

Not really... we just had better spin-doctors back then.

Ask the Native Americans (or the blacks, or the women, or the Irish, Chinese, Japanese, and communists).

JerryLove · 10-17-2005, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Yeah Bush is deffinitally better then Kerry BY FAR. I mean his biggest compliment to himself was that he had 3 purple hearts ( shows how great a soldier he was.) I mean a guy that got himself shot 3 times would be leading our military.

Not to mention the Presidential unit citation, Bronze Star, and Silver star. How many medals do you have?

But far be it from me to think that someone who oulenteered in a time of conflict to put his life at risk to defend his country might be qualified to lead it.

JerryLove · 10-17-2005, 07:49 PM

Quote:

i support him he does not lie and most stuff is not hi folt.

I think you should realy watch:
http://homepage.mac.com/njenson/movi...concerned.html

TahoeJeff · 10-18-2005, 03:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charlie

Let me ask you this : what if next year China decides to invade the USA, overthrow the gov't and occupy the country. They say : "Bush is an evil dictator, and he commited crimes against his own people in New Orleans." Now , what would america say then, in the court of world opinion. Wouldn't that be exactly the same thing the Usa did to the people of Iraq.

EXACTLY!

Honestly..what good has Bush brought us? Very little...if any. The bad definitely outweighs the good in this case. This may be a bold statement, but sometimes I wish Clinton was president again. Sure, he may have had his flaws. I can't support his adultery, but at least no American troops died because it, and if I remember things correctly our economy was pretty good. Bush is messing up big time. I have said it before, and I will say it again. I am convinced Helen Keller would have made a better president. Its hard for Blind, Deaf, Mutes to go provoking an unjustified war.

TahoeJeff · 10-18-2005, 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7jesusfreak7

i support him he does not lie and most stuff is not hi folt. so i think he is fine.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051014/...r_wh/bush_iraq

I already posted it, but here is a small example of one of his lies. By the way, how is it not his fault? He is responsible for his actions...No one else.

**Sean** · 10-18-2005, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TahoeJeff

if I remember things correctly our economy was pretty good. Bush is messing up big time.

Yes the economy was good during the 90s. Of course, the state of the ecomony has never merely been controlled by who is in president. And whatever is the state of the ecomony today is a direct results of what has taken place over the past 10 years.

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I have said it before, and I will say it again. I am convinced Helen Keller would have made a better president. Its hard for Blind, Deaf, Mutes to go provoking an unjustified war.

...yes because that is all that matters.

dcunning30 · 10-18-2005, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TahoeJeff

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051014/...r_wh/bush_iraq

I already posted it, but here is a small example of one of his lies. By the way, how is it not his fault? He is responsible for his actions...No one else.

So you missed the CBS interview of the soldier who said, yea they rehearsed the logistics of the interview, but what they had to say was their own opinions.

OneHope · 10-18-2005, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerryLove

Not really... we just had better spin-doctors back then.

Ask the Native Americans (or the blacks, or the women, or the Irish, Chinese, Japanese, and communists).

True, I didn't even think of that. I guess they stood for freedom of people of British descent, which would be a noble cause if all there were were Brits.