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Unread 08-12-2006, 09:38 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Jenacen View Post
As long as it sounds good, who cares?
That's a statement that Eddie Van Halen used to live by...and one that I find somewhat dangerous and incomplete.

"As long as it sounds good..."to whom?

Some folks listen to Coltrane and think it sounds bad.
Some listen to Neil Young and think it sounds bad.
Some folks listen to Mozart and think it sounds bad.

Other folks listen to any or all of the above and think it sounds good.

Go figure.

And I would ammend a previous statement to say that "It can help in every situation to know what chords you're playing over".
The chords identify the key center and any modulation that occurs which map out for you where you can and can't go.

Even the chromatic scale can sound perfect or it can sound out of place depending on where you let the notes fall.

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Unread 08-13-2006, 11:48 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by gtrdave View Post
Even the chromatic scale can sound perfect or it can sound out of place depending on where you let the notes fall.
I wasn't aware that the chromatic could be used well at all, seeing as it seems to encompass every note on the fretboard . There really is a lot more variety in this stuff than I'd have ever thought.
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Unread 08-13-2006, 12:10 PM   #33
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I wasn't aware that the chromatic could be used well at all, seeing as it seems to encompass every note on the fretboard . There really is a lot more variety in this stuff than I'd have ever thought.
Well, why wouldn't chromaticism work? You don't necessarily make long chromatic runs all over the board. That would be way way overkill. Instead, you just add a bit here and there to jazz up a line, and add interest.

See, what happens is the notes that apply to the particular key and/or mode you are playing in fall in place. The ones that don't are experienced as color notes or spice notes (or whatever the term is for them) that add a bit of extra flavor to the line. This would be much akin to the blue notes that occur in the Blues scale and many forms of Jazz.

In fact, chromatics can spice up a main riff to great effect. Case in point: "Dr. Feelgood". And let's not forget the chorus to "Seek & Destroy".

(Phantom of the Opera "Overture", anyone?)

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Unread 08-13-2006, 11:03 PM   #34
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I would say it "blueses" up a line instead of "jazzes".
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Unread 08-14-2006, 12:48 AM   #35
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I would say it "blueses" up a line instead of "jazzes".
"Blues notes", yes. "Chromatics"? Depends on usage.
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Unread 02-16-2007, 05:15 PM   #36
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Based on a chord progression, how do you know what notes to play? Like If I have a D Bm G A chord progression, can I simply use any of those scales whenever I want? Or do I have to use the "D" scale when the "D" chords is played and so on...?
I don't really care If it sounds cool with use of bends and slides and such, I just want to know what notes/scales are "legal" for usage, because then I can just record a chord progression, and all of the speed and bends and stuff will eventually come to me after practice.
I guess in short I'm asking how to improvise to a given chord progression.
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Unread 02-16-2007, 06:31 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by CDBongo View Post
Based on a chord progression, how do you know what notes to play? Like If I have a D Bm G A chord progression, can I simply use any of those scales whenever I want? Or do I have to use the "D" scale when the "D" chords is played and so on...?
I don't really care If it sounds cool with use of bends and slides and such, I just want to know what notes/scales are "legal" for usage, because then I can just record a chord progression, and all of the speed and bends and stuff will eventually come to me after practice.
I guess in short I'm asking how to improvise to a given chord progression.
Focus first on creating a melody. That will govern everything else.
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Unread 10-14-2007, 06:28 PM   #38
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Just learn over time how to improvise. No one is an expert, and you learn through practice. However, I'll share some of my stories with you.

(First, realize of course that lead guitar in a church is not a place to showcase your talent: you're there to help make the music beautiful and worshipful, not be the Christian Satriani or Vai.)

One time we were playing the song Hallelujah and I felt as if God told me to play the bridge melody as a solo. I obeyed, and people still claim that this was the best solo they had ever heard. Hard? no. Just singing tone.

The other time I did a scalar run "slow motion" from the bottom string to the top, from neck humbucker, under crunch sound, palm muted. They liked it, sure enough, but it was "cool" sounding, not really something that made them feel like they were drawn closer to God.

A good solo draws people to God. Even top Christian guitarists who play in worship setting will tell you the same thing. My recommendation? Learn how to improvise (not just play scales) and play melodically. Of course, I'm no expert, and sometimes God has to show you (so pray and ask Him). Also, study great worship guitarists. To me, Hillsong's guitarists comes to mind. Stuff they do with a guitar sounds absolutely beautiful even though it might not be difficult.
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Unread 10-14-2007, 07:08 PM   #39
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Anyone here ever heard of the Lydian Chromatic Concept?
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Unread 10-14-2007, 07:24 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CheshireCat View Post
Anyone here ever heard of the Lydian Chromatic Concept?
Anyone ever heard of the Guitar Grimoire?
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Unread 10-18-2007, 05:06 AM   #41
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Anyone here ever heard of the Lydian Chromatic Concept?
I'm interested; please share!
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Unread 10-18-2007, 07:13 PM   #42
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I'm interested; please share!
Well, it's a radical new concept from George Russell, considered one of the greatest innovators of jazz, and his work was, in fact, the very source material that Miles Davis drew from to create Kind of Blue, hailed as one of the greatest jazz albums of all time. In fact, Miles even said of Russell, "He's the mo-fo who taught me how to write." This coming from one already established as one of the greatest artists of the 20th Century.

Essentially, Russell suggested a new way of looking at the twelve-tone equal-temperment system (music based on C*D*EF*G*A*B). In simple terms, thru-out history (we're talkin' thousands of years here), most cultures around the world based their various versions of the basic scale off stacked fifths, the fifth being the most tonically stable interval of all.

So, that being said - and the common practice for thousands of years around the world, until some Europeans changed everything and called it the "common system" just a few centuries ago - if you start on any given tone, and go up a fifth, then another, then another, until you've gone six fifths, you'll have seven tones (of the possible twelve) that, when you collapse them into one octave, would make what would ultimately be the most stable scale possible, tonically, and would convey a sense of unity. It wouldn't feel the need to resolve, but, would, in fact, be resolved in and of itself.

And, because, it was based on fifths, which move towards their tonic with the greatest degree of gravitational pull, and each tonic serving as the fifth of another of the tones, ultilmately, the series of tones land on the bottom most tonic. Russell termed this phenomenon "tonal gravity".

Another way of looking at it is that the Event Horizon of a tone's gravitational pull apexs just past the fifth. The fifth is where you get sucked into the gravitational pull of the particular note in question.

Now, because the gravitational force pushing down thru the tones ends on the lowest tone of the set of fifths the scale is drawn from, that tone acts as Sun Absolute, and everything unifies around and down to that tone, like the planets orbiting the Sun.

You might consider this a vertical approach (Russell does) where everything moves cleanly and precisely to a tonal center, while the major/minor constuct of scales moves in a horizontal direction, searching for resolution, but never quite finding it . . . which, by the way, is what orbiting is, where an object falls to another object (vertical), but it's lateral (horizontal) movement or vector is so strong the object keeps missing it.

Now, this new vertically-collapsed-stack-of-fifths scale and the major/minor scale system are both useful, and one isn't necessarily better than the other, but the new scale works better as a tonal center for various chords and scales, and as something of a tonal station, while the major scale (and minor scale) is useful for getting from here to there in a number of instances, but ultimately it takes a backseat to this new scale.

Now, interestingly enough, this scale already exists in a form that we can readily recognize. How so? Look at the Circle of Fifths, and start on any tone, like F, for example. Going to the right, the fifth up from F is C, and the fifth up from C is G, and then D from G, and so on, until you have F C G D A E and B. Now, collapse that into one octave, and you have F G A B C D E & back to F again. So, if we pick F as our gravitational tonic, to coin a term, we get F G A B C D E & F . . .

F G A B C D E & F

Does anyone notice anything about that particular collection of tones?

More later . . .
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Last edited by CheshireCat; 10-18-2007 at 07:29 PM.
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Unread 10-18-2007, 07:16 PM   #43
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Duuuude!

I didn't realize Theory could get so complicated! And that is genius.
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The key to great tone is really found in the kind of hand soap that you use.
For years I used a typical off-the-shelf bar-type soap and I had no idea that, even though I rinsed properly and thoroughly after every cleansing, there was still a soap scum residue on my hands and fingers.
This negatively affected my tone in ways that I just can't describe.
Then, on a whim, a few years ago I wandered into a Bath and Body Works store at a local mall and picked up some of their gentle foaming anti-bacterial hand cleansers.
The difference in my guitar's sound is so wickedly improved that I no longer feel the need to buy a new amp or pedals or even strings...EVER!
So, it's my belief that tone is in the soap.
Thank you and goodnight.
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Unread 10-21-2007, 11:15 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by CheshireCat View Post
F G A B C D E & F

Does anyone notice anything about that particular collection of tones?

More later . . .
It's the Lydian scale. No wonder it sounds so nice.
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Unread 10-21-2007, 02:49 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CheshireCat View Post
Well, why wouldn't chromaticism work? You don't necessarily make long chromatic runs all over the board. That would be way way overkill. Instead, you just add a bit here and there to jazz up a line, and add interest.

See, what happens is the notes that apply to the particular key and/or mode you are playing in fall in place. The ones that don't are experienced as color notes or spice notes (or whatever the term is for them) that add a bit of extra flavor to the line. This would be much akin to the blue notes that occur in the Blues scale and many forms of Jazz.

In fact, chromatics can spice up a main riff to great effect. Case in point: "Dr. Feelgood". And let's not forget the chorus to "Seek & Destroy".

(Phantom of the Opera "Overture", anyone?)

Chesh
Yeah.

Case in point, last night me and the keyboard player were jamming some jazz and I was getting bored with the improvisation line I had been using. So I decided to do:

----12-------------
-------11----------
---------10--------
-----------9--10---

(We were in the key of C minor at the time.) So I just did that and then went back to the theme. Easy, innocent, simple, and not in the key, but he liked it.

What's the point? Experiment! Not everything has to fit into the key. Another example: surf music. They threw in chromatics every once in a while.
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