[JonnyBoy]

so what happens when there is a couple that is completely committed to God, they are of age (early 20s or so) they are completely committed to eachother, they are planning on geting married as soon as they are out of college, and they have this HUGE sexual attraction for eachother.
it seems like all the "don't have sex till you're married" comments are directed at teens. the only kind of undesireable pregnancies are TEEN pregnancies. and the bible really dosn't specifically talk about two lovers that are soon to be married. it seems (to me) like all the adultry talk is aimed at adults who are married. or maybe unmarried people who sleep around.
so answer me this, through your interpritation of the bible (not what the preacher, or your mom has said) what does God think of almost marrieds having sex? and what about other sexual acts that are equally as satisfying but not actual intercourse?

[Shredcheddar]

Originally Posted by JonnyBoy

so what happens when there is a couple that is completely committed to God, they are of age (early 20s or so) they are completely committed to eachother, they are planning on geting married as soon as they are out of college, and they have this HUGE sexual attraction for eachother.
it seems like all the "don't have sex till you're married" comments are directed at teens. the only kind of undesireable pregnancies are TEEN pregnancies. and the bible really dosn't specifically talk about two lovers that are soon to be married. it seems (to me) like all the adultry talk is aimed at adults who are married. or maybe unmarried people who sleep around.
so answer me this, through your interpritation of the bible (not what the preacher, or your mom has said) what does God think of almost marrieds having sex? and what about other sexual acts that are equally as satisfying but not actual intercourse?

What's the difference between being unmarried and sleeping around and being unmarried and sleeping with your fiancee? What God is concerned about is our lusting after something which we do not have. With marriage, two fleshes become one; it isn't lustful or sinful to have sex with your spouse. However, if they're not your spouse, they're not your spouse. Period. Being "almost married" isn't an excuse. Haven't you ever heard of engagements being broken off? Ask around on CGR - people here have had it happen.

Just what interpretation of yours would allow for a distinction between sleeping around and having sex with a fiancee? God didn't set an arbitrary line in regards to our sexual activity; we are commanded to live sexually pure lives, which means all sexual thoughts and actions are to be between a husband and a wife in the context of Biblical marriage.

[BillSPrestonEsq]

Originally Posted by JonnyBoy

so what happens when there is a couple that is completely committed to God, they are of age (early 20s or so) they are completely committed to eachother, they are planning on geting married as soon as they are out of college, and they have this HUGE sexual attraction for eachother.
it seems like all the "don't have sex till you're married" comments are directed at teens. the only kind of undesireable pregnancies are TEEN pregnancies. and the bible really dosn't specifically talk about two lovers that are soon to be married. it seems (to me) like all the adultry talk is aimed at adults who are married. or maybe unmarried people who sleep around.
so answer me this, through your interpritation of the bible (not what the preacher, or your mom has said) what does God think of almost marrieds having sex? and what about other sexual acts that are equally as satisfying but not actual intercourse?

Absolutely positively just as sinful as two thirteen year olds getting it on.

[Ted Logan]

Originally Posted by JonnyBoy

so what happens when there is a couple that is completely committed to God, they are of age (early 20s or so) they are completely committed to eachother, they are planning on geting married as soon as they are out of college, and they have this HUGE sexual attraction for eachother.
it seems like all the "don't have sex till you're married" comments are directed at teens. the only kind of undesireable pregnancies are TEEN pregnancies. and the bible really dosn't specifically talk about two lovers that are soon to be married. it seems (to me) like all the adultry talk is aimed at adults who are married. or maybe unmarried people who sleep around.
so answer me this, through your interpritation of the bible (not what the preacher, or your mom has said) what does God think of almost marrieds having sex? and what about other sexual acts that are equally as satisfying but not actual intercourse?

Yes, the Bible does specifically mention "two lovers that are soon to be married." It says that they should get married. Premarital sex is condemned by the Bible. Here's how I explained it a while back:

---

Check out this thread for a discussion of this subject. Here is the argument I made there:

"Adultery" in the Old Testament as enumerated in the Ten Commandments refers to the breaking of the marriage covenant by having sex outside that union. In order for sex to be adultery in this sense, one of the parties must first be married. If neither is married, then they have not committed adultery.

There are many, many other sexual commandments that we are required to follow that are not "adultery." We are commanded not to have sex with an animal, a close relative, a stepparent, a stepchild, a stepsibling, et cetera. We are not to have sex with a woman who is menstruating. We are not to have sex with someone of our own gender. None of these things is adultery, but that does not mean we are not required to abstain from them.

Among the most commonly attacked sexual purity requirements is the requirement to abstain from sex until marriage. Opposition often says that there is no command saying, "thou shalt not have sex before marriage." This is true. However, there is also no command saying, "thou shalt not have sex with a prepubescent person." It is obviously sinful to do so, but there is no command as straightforward as that condemning adultery. We might ask why.

Marriage is a covenant, a union blessed by God, a metaphor for His relationship to the Church. It is a union that is sealed by and renewed with a specific act: Sexual intercourse. A marriage that has not been consummated is not a marriage. Sexual generosity is required by both parties in marriage, as is sexual fidelity. It is the bond through which the marriage covenant is sealed. By it, two people become one flesh.

Obviously, sex in this context is a sacred and important thing. But where else is sex permitted? Where else does the Bible say that sex is allowed? There are two ways to answer this.

First of all, sex is only allowed inside marriage by virtue of the nature of the word porneia. This is the Greek word often translated as "sexual immorality" in the New Testament. What it means is "sexual unlawfulness." That which is illegal sexual behavior is porneia. We are instructed to flee from porneia. One might say that only those sexual relationships which are extolled in the Bible are legal. The only such relationship is marriage. Thus, premarital sex is sinful because it does not fulfill the requirements for God-blessed sexual activity.

Second, and more importantly, if premarital sex were acceptable, First Corinthians 7:8-9 would be rendered meaningless (and worse, nonsensical).

1 Cor 7:8-9
8 Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am.
9 But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
(NIV)

Now, we ask, what does this say? It says that Paul places value on singledom. However, if a person is incapable of self-control, they should marry rather than burning with passion. We must ask: Self-control of what? Passion for what? Paul can only mean one of two things: Either passion for sexuality or passion for marriage is in view here. Let us first examine the second possibility.

If Paul is saying that uncontrollable passion for marriage is the reason to get married, are there so many people in Corinth that Paul would need to say this? Does it even make sense? I suppose that it is possible that there are people with burning passion for being married. However, these are certainly fewer and farther between than those who burn with passion for sexuality. Is it a common saying to burn for marriage? Is it a common saying to burn with lust?

We must concede that it is common for people to burn with lust. It is so common, in fact, that it has been called an addiction. Whether it is common to burn with passion for getting married is another matter.

However, the text actually makes the matter quite clear. Let's back up even further. Now, read this whole section together:

1 Cor 7:3-9
3 The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband.
4 The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife.
5 Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.
6 I say this as a concession, not as a command.
7 I wish that all men were as I am. But each man has his own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that.
8 Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am.
9 But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
(NIV)

In this context, it should be quite clear that Paul is saying, in verse 9, that people should get married if they cannot control their passion for sex. Verse 5 makes this clear, because there is really no other explanation of this "self-control" matter than to say that if a husband or wife deprives the other, they may be tempted to find other ways to alleviate their urges. Doing so would be adultery. However, it's not adultery for the unmarried people in verse 9. They can't break a covenant they aren't a part of. So, if they could have premarital sex, there would be no need to get married to avoid burning with lust. Do you follow?

Okay. Here's the argument, then, as it stands:

1. Paul says that a lack of self-control is an acceptable reason to marry.
2. That same self-control is referenced earlier to refer to a husband or wife whose spouse deprives the other of his or her body.
3. Self-control in verse 9 is used in regard to "burning," that is, that a person should get married rather than burn.
4. Thus, an unmarried person is encouraged to marry if they do not have the self-control necessary to withstand burning with desire for sex.
5. If premarital sex were permissible, the unmarried person could simply have sex to alleviate their burning. That is, self-control would not be necessary.

I hope this is all helpful. The crux of the argument is that premarital sex is sinful, impure, and evil because 1 Corinthians 7 makes the contrary impossible. In other words, if it weren't sinful, 1 Corinthians 7:8-9 would make no sense, and God is not a God of confusion but of peace (1 Corinthians 14:33). His Word is never faulty, or confused, or nonsensical.

---

The shorter version:
1. Is the Bible the Word of God?
--Yes.
2. Is God a God of confusion?
--No.
3. Can we trust the Word of God to be true?
--Yes.
4. 1 Corinthians 7:9 is rendered nonsensical if premarital sex is not sinful.
5. 1 Corinthians 7:9 is the Word of God
6. Thus, 1 Corinthians 7:9 is not nonsensical
7. Thus, premarital sex is sinful.

[JonnyBoy]

wow! that last part was very mathmatical! those are very insightful thoughts. so what if the couple is "burning with passion" and they really can't get married? (because 1. they attend differnent colleges and 2. they would have no way to support themselves) its almost an impass. reducing the relationship to friends untill the end of college seems like the only other option. . .
what do you think about the very last part of my question? I think I already know what you are going to say but. . .shoot!

[BillSPrestonEsq]

Originally Posted by JonnyBoy

wow! that last part was very mathmatical! those are very insightful thoughts. so what if the couple is "burning with passion" and they really can't get married? (because 1. they attend differnent colleges and 2. they would have no way to support themselves) its almost an impass. reducing the relationship to friends untill the end of college seems like the only other option. . .
what do you think about the very last part of my question? I think I already know what you are going to say but. . .shoot!

No there is another option as well. realize marriage is more important than college. Furthermore, one can support themselves while in college. I know, I had to do it.

I burned with desire for 2 long years till I got done with college. Bad mistake, and wrong. Being married now, I see that I had totally screwed up priorities. The person you marry is more important than your choice of schools.

Both your problems are remediable.

[Ted Logan]

Exactly. It's usually selfishness that makes a person think that they should continue to burn for a while, until the time is more convenient.

Johnnyboy, contrary to popular (college student) belief, there are millions of married couples out there who support themselves without college degrees. A friend of mine has been married for 6 years, is raising two children, and his wife is going to college. After she completes her degree, he'll go to college to get his. I guarantee you that neither of them wishes they'd done it differently.

I think we Americans tend to have a mindset when it comes to college that is incredibly unhealthy.

[JonnyBoy]

"I think we Americans tend to have a mindset when it comes to college that is incredibly unhealthy." I think your right!
see, my girlfriend and I are having this problem. the good thing is that she has only one more year till she has her degree so it might be not so bad to have a year engagement and then get married after she has her degree.