The Pope

LiLJesusFreak · 07-09-2005, 05:39 PM

A lot of Catholics (I dont mean to be rude or anything) see the Pope as the 2nd person going next to God, heck most even call him "your holiness" and kiss his hand as so many did to Pope John Paul II. Im not saying that having a Pope to represent Christianity in general is wrong, but I personally think that its just wrong to see him as someone "right next to God" you know?

Andrei · 07-09-2005, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiLJesusFreak

A lot of Catholics (I dont mean to be rude or anything) see the Pope as the 2nd person going next to God, heck most even call him "your holiness" and kiss his hand as so many did to Pope John Paul II. Im not saying that having a Pope to represent Christianity in general is wrong, but I personally think that its just wrong to see him as someone "right next to God" you know?

Are you asking a particular question, or are you stating an opinion for others to see? Are you wanting affirmation of your position or to start a debate about it? Or maybe you are wanting to ask if your assessment is accurate?

Let us know. God bless.

LiLJesusFreak · 07-09-2005, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrei

Are you asking a particular question, or are you stating an opinion for others to see? Are you wanting affirmation of your position or to start a debate about it? Or maybe you are wanting to ask if your assessment is accurate?

Let us know. God bless.

for one, yes that is just my opinion. Im not trying to start any hot fights over this neither am i trying to degrade Catholics. Gee I hope thats not what Im getting into. Im just being honest in my opinion and would like some clearity why most people see the Pope in that way thats all.

goldenchild · 07-09-2005, 05:56 PM

Whatever you're asking, check out this paper I wrote before asking too many questions:
Biblical Basis for Peter and the Papacy http://www.christianguitar.org/forum...52#post1604952

no_fixd_address · 07-09-2005, 06:14 PM

A lot of Catholics (I dont mean to be rude or anything) see the Pope as the 2nd person going next to God, heck most even call him "your holiness" and kiss his hand as so many did to Pope John Paul II. Im not saying that having a Pope to represent Christianity in general is wrong, but I personally think that its just wrong to see him as someone "right next to God" you know?

A lot of Anglicans (I dont mean to be rude or anything) see the Queen of England as the 2nd person going next to God, heck most even call him "your highness" and kiss her hand as so many did to all the previous queens and kings. Im not saying that having a queen or king to represent Christianity in general is wrong, but I personally think that its just wrong to see him as someone "right next to God" you know?

Freak, if I were an Anglican, I would take objection the second paragraph. All popes are sinners. Pope John Paul II was a sinner. He confessed his sins the way the bible instructs us to confess our sins. He is greatly revered for two reasons. One, he holds the Chair of Peter. That has nothing to do with his personality, personal opinions, or tv popularity. Two, he is in my opinion the greatest pope was have had since Peter. Another reason for his popularity, and great reverence, is that he is the head of state, and is entitled to the same respect as any queen, president, or prime minister.

The second person next to God is the one who receives "this child in His name", and places himself last on the status list of importance. (Matthew 19) That is what Jesus taught, and that is what Catholics believe, and we have models like Mother Teresa to emmulate. The out trappings that you see are just part of human nature, and are demanded in the world of diplomatic etiquatte. Maybe you can find a speech, sermon, or any public statment where the Pope brags of himself .

Andrei · 07-09-2005, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by no_fixd_address

A lot of Anglicans (I dont mean to be rude or anything) see the Queen of England as the 2nd person going next to God, heck most even call him "your highness"...

As for the Queen, I don't think anyone calls him "your highness." The might call her that, though

Quote:

Freak, if I were an Anglican, I would take objection the second paragraph.

Anglicans...Episcopalians in general, don't take offense. We love everybody and have absolutely no standards whatsoever. I like to think of us as Trinitarian Universalists

Ugggggg....and that's no laughing matter. I tell you the truth.

goldenchild · 07-09-2005, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiLJesusFreak

A lot of Catholics (I dont mean to be rude or anything) see the Pope as the 2nd person going next to God, heck most even call him "your holiness" and kiss his hand as so many did to Pope John Paul II. Im not saying that having a Pope to represent Christianity in general is wrong, but I personally think that its just wrong to see him as someone "right next to God" you know?

Let me ask you some questions. Do a lot of Catholics see him this way? Or does the Catholic Church herself see him that way?

And what is wrong with showing someone utmost respect?

SmileAndFollow · 07-09-2005, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goldenchild

Let me ask you some questions. Do a lot of Catholics see him this way? Or does the Catholic Church herself see him that way?

And what is wrong with showing someone utmost respect?

Showing an amazing and deserving man like the pope respect is not a problem, and we should all have respect for him, Catholic or not. The only problem would be when you start putting him on the same level as God. I think that is what LilJesusFreak was getting at. I dont believe thats what the pope wants at all, but I could see some people putting him there.

ICTHUS · 07-09-2005, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmileAndFollow

Showing an amazing and deserving man like the pope respect is not a problem, and we should all have respect for him, Catholic or not. The only problem would be when you start putting him on the same level as God. I think that is what LilJesusFreak was getting at. I dont believe thats what the pope wants at all, but I could see some people putting him there.

Exactly. And need I remind people that Roman Catholics call the Roman Bishop "The Holy Father"

Consider the following two conversations:

"Man, I had the most awesome audience with our Holy Father last night. It was so amazing, I just poured my heart out to him, and he heard me - I told him all about the frustrations I'm having with our diocesan youth ministry program"

and

"Man, I had the most awesome audience with our Holy Father yesterday. I petitioned him for more funding for my diocesan youth ministry program, because I really think if we just had more money, we could do so much better work for God's Kingdom - we're suffering from a serious lack of funds"

I can't tell the difference between who's talking to the Pope and who's talking to God the Father. Can you?

thessalonian · 07-09-2005, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiLJesusFreak

A lot of Catholics (I dont mean to be rude or anything) see the Pope as the 2nd person going next to God, heck most even call him "your holiness" and kiss his hand as so many did to Pope John Paul II. Im not saying that having a Pope to represent Christianity in general is wrong, but I personally think that its just wrong to see him as someone "right next to God" you know?

I really don't know what posts like this do other than make you feel superior about yourself and spread prejudice and ignorance. I've heard all sorts of this nonsense like Catholics think Mary is the fourth person of the trinity and the Pope is the 2nd person next to God. Funny thing is I've NEVER heard a Catholic say any of it. I kiss the hand of my wife so is she next to God too? Solomon bowed down before Bethsheeba so was she next to God. The Jews bowed down before the ark of the Covenant. Jesus kissed Judas. He was literally next to God. If you can find me even 1 Catholic who will post that the Pope is "right next to God" I'd be amazed. God is infinitely greater than any man. Of course if you want to spread more ignorance and prejudice start other threads like this one.

Blessings though

thessalonian · 07-09-2005, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ICTHUS

Exactly. And need I remind people that Roman Catholics call the Roman Bishop "The Holy Father"

Consider the following two conversations:

"Man, I had the most awesome audience with our Holy Father last night. It was so amazing, I just poured my heart out to him, and he heard me - I told him all about the frustrations I'm having with our diocesan youth ministry program"

and

"Man, I had the most awesome audience with our Holy Father yesterday. I petitioned him for more funding for my diocesan youth ministry program, because I really think if we just had more money, we could do so much better work for God's Kingdom - we're suffering from a serious lack of funds"

I can't tell the difference between who's talking to the Pope and who's talking to God the Father. Can you?

Is this the Icthus from Phatmass? You can't tell the difference when someone is talking about a Pope and talking to God?

This post is total nonsense. There are many things called holy in the Bible. Holy objects, holy water, holy men, men called holy one (besides Jesus), holy nations, etc. etc. Holy means dedicated to God and that is what the office of the papacy is.

Exuse me if this post is at all rude. It's not meant to be but some people say some really dumb things. I'm being as kind as I can under the circumstances.

God bless all. Even you Icthus.

SmileAndFollow · 07-10-2005, 12:06 AM

Thessalonian I am sure that some people end up worshipping the Pope. Hell, Ive caught myself worshipping stupider things than that. People might not know what they are doing, but that doesnt change things. I can see ways that calling the pope holy father and holding in such a high position could lead people to worshipping him and not who he represents. I dont believe anyone was bashing catholics. They might have been pointing out some things they disagree with in how things are un in catholicism, but thats understandable. Try and remove yourself from the situation so that you can see it for what it is instead of getting personal with things.

ChrisHarbison · 07-10-2005, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by no_fixd_address

A lot of Anglicans (I dont mean to be rude or anything) see the Queen of England as the 2nd person going next to God, heck most even call him "your highness"...

If the "Queen" is a "him" then I'm wondering exactly what kind of queen we're referring to.

thessalonian · 07-10-2005, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmileAndFollow

Thessalonian I am sure that some people end up worshipping the Pope. Hell, Ive caught myself worshipping stupider things than that. People might not know what they are doing, but that doesnt change things. I can see ways that calling the pope holy father and holding in such a high position could lead people to worshipping him and not who he represents. I dont believe anyone was bashing catholics. They might have been pointing out some things they disagree with in how things are un in catholicism, but thats understandable. Try and remove yourself from the situation so that you can see it for what it is instead of getting personal with things.

Once again, if you are able to judge hearts by all means tell me who and what people are worshipping. I've never met a Catholic who worshipped the Pope. I loved the last one dearly and the new one is starting out nicely but I certainly know that the Mass will never be offered to either of them. The Mass is the highest form of worship in Catholicism and it is to God alone. I know of noone who is so stupid to think that a Pope is a God. I am just calling a spade a spade and asking you people to examine yourselfs. This thread is simply ridiculous. I'm being as kind as I can with it.

Blessings

SmileAndFollow · 07-10-2005, 12:33 AM

Worship is not as cut and dry as you would like. There are some people that would hold the Pope in higher regard than God. Not all the time mind you. If they ever met the Pope and got all excited about it and completely forgot about God that would be putting him over God and thats a sin. Both sin and worship are extremely vast terms and they are both things one should spend some time trying to understand.