is there really a culture war?

cuziamthecaptai · 05-19-2005, 01:30 PM

I've been watching CBN the past few days (damn no cable, damn no cable) and it seems they keep mentioning a culture war. And from what they moan about, it appears we're winning. (By 'us,' I mean the secular humanists).

But eh--- I think there are about maybe 3% strong atheists and maybe 8% evangelicals who actually evangulize. The rest either believe or don't believe and don't care. I think most Christians are Cheasters: they pop into a church on Christmas and Easter.

The whole concept of a 'culture war' may just be an invention of televangelists who want to gain support (against the common boggeyman enemy) and the newspaper who sell their rag by the us-verses-them mentality.

But then again, as the government takes over more and more, they'll be a greater and greater vie for power.

But then, if there is a war, who's winning?

Our side has the media and of course the sciences. And our trackrecord is going pretty well-- no one imagined in the 90's that by now there'd be legalized marriage. And roe v. wade is firmly in place.
But you folks have the people. And it's generally easier to herd christian sheep than seculars.

so what do you all think?

**+Donny** · 05-19-2005, 03:05 PM

America is to complicated to reference a single, monolithic (sp?) culture war. It just depends.

Now, non-Christians religions will always war against Christianity, but that doesn't mean everything they do is necessarily bad.

JerryLove · 05-19-2005, 04:12 PM

Depends on where you draw the line between "secular / religious" and more general "neo-con / everyone else".

On the secular / religious front, I would say that we lost momentum and the lines are shakey. We've got evolution / ID just through a debate in KS. We had a state or two push for civil unions / marriages, but we've had even more drop the good faith requirements regarding it. We had a definition of marriage ammendment come up, but didn't make it anywhere.

On the more general terms (i.e. neo-con vs the world) we invaded Iraq with no plan, we continue to offshore with no regulation, we've strained our relations with our long-time allies, we've supported a coup against a rightfully-elected democratic president, we're supporting powers that oppress their citizens (Pakistan, that balkin territory that just killed off a bunch of civiliians for protesting last week), we've run the deficit through the cieling, opened up reserves to drilling, cut funding for social programs while increasing millitary spending. We are even taking down hubble for some pipe-dream about Mars (how is that moon mission coming anyway?).

"BrooksB" · 05-20-2005, 09:52 AM

I don't necessarily see a "war" going on about it, but Christians and non-Christians are typically been pitted against each other. It definitely sounds like CBN hype trying to get people so excited about Jesus that they do irrational things in effort to win this "war" against humanists.

Lightknight · 05-20-2005, 09:57 AM

I assume this comment isn't a worldwide comment. If so, it's totally false. As for America, who knows.

cuziamthecaptai · 05-20-2005, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerryLove

Depends on where you draw the line between "secular / religious" and more general "neo-con / everyone else".

On the secular / religious front, I would say that we lost momentum and the lines are shakey. We've got evolution / ID just through a debate in KS. We had a state or two push for civil unions / marriages, but we've had even more drop the good faith requirements regarding it. We had a definition of marriage ammendment come up, but didn't make it anywhere.

Well, I think you have to consider how much progress has been made already, at least with the gay rights. I mean, it's only been since 1967 that interracial couples could marry.

The way I see it, the right will probably give up this fight, and focues all their resources on evolution and abortion rights.

Ah, but yeah-- I don't think most americans are too concerened with one side one way or another. Still, it's cool to think you're in some great war, especially when there's no bloodshed. If we had more atheists, we could have one big doom-esq online battle... ahh to relive the teenage years.

"BrooksB" · 05-20-2005, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cuziamthecaptai

Ah, but yeah-- I don't think most americans are too concerened with one side one way or another. Still, it's cool to think you're in some great war, especially when there's no bloodshed. If we had more atheists, we could have one big doom-esq online battle... ahh to relive the teenage years.

I wish you could see this mental picture...

Christians walking around with clerical collars and the humanists walking around with coffee and cigarettes. It would be a battle to the death. Win by antagonizing the opponent to death with rhetoric.

cuziamthecaptai · 05-20-2005, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrooksB

I wish you could see this mental picture...

Christians walking around with clerical collars and the humanists walking around with coffee and cigarettes. It would be a battle to the death. Win by antagonizing the opponent to death with rhetoric.

heh heh ... oh come on -- who woulnd't like a little paintball war. 10 on 10, blue paint vs. red paint. We would attack when you guys are in prayer, you would attack when we're tring to scrach 'in god we trust' off our dollar bills

***BillSPrestonEsq*** · 05-20-2005, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cuziamthecaptai

heh heh ... oh come on -- who woulnd't like a little paintball war. 10 on 10, blue paint vs. red paint. We would attack when you guys are in prayer, you would attack when we're tring to scrach 'in god we trust' off our dollar bills

You wouldn't want me to face you in paintball. You really don't, I have a 10:1 kill ratio to times I am killed.

The whole concept of a culture war seems rather fascist to me on both sides, and sems to set the stage perfectly for a charismatic leader of either stripe to take the stage, and fulfill the role of a fascist leader with goals to set this country into the glorious Christian/atheist democracy/republic it was meant to be.

That said, I think its a farce, and a good thing. Without dissidents on both sides, you do not get a tension holding society in equilibrium.

JerryLove · 05-20-2005, 12:25 PM

I do think that the Christians have charismatic leaders pushing an adgenda. Need I bring up (for example) televangelists with law schools?

**+Donny** · 05-20-2005, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerryLove

I do think that the Christians have charismatic leaders pushing an adgenda. Need I bring up (for example) televangelists with law schools?

I'm sure there are charismatic leaders on the other side as well.

***BillSPrestonEsq*** · 05-20-2005, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerryLove

I do think that the Christians have charismatic leaders pushing an adgenda. Need I bring up (for example) televangelists with law schools?

Well I would point to other things first... In fact I specifically think there is one far more influential. Its just at this point neither side has had a unified charismatic leader. Its that lack of unity behind one man which seperates both sides from a truly fascist agenda. And I definitely agree there are Christians pushing for a form of fascism naively, and yes, I find this very disconcerting.

**Ridley's Own** · 05-20-2005, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerryLove

Need I bring up (for example) televangelists with law schools?

Only slightly less dangerous than orangutans with shotguns.

cuziamthecaptai · 05-21-2005, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by +Donny

I'm sure there are charismatic leaders on the other side as well.

I don't know. I think by nature the seculurists are harder to organize.

I mean, who's the most popular atheist in America? Which atheist has the most political power?

If anything, I think the fundies have the leaders and the dedication. The seculars have the institutions.

It's an interesting concept, this conflict. It seems inevitable that the world will become free-er and more secular, just by looking at history. But the christians feel so much stronger about evolution and gay marriage, than, say interracial marriage and civil rights.

**+Donny** · 05-21-2005, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cuziamthecaptai

I don't know. I think by nature the seculurists are harder to organize.

I mean, who's the most popular atheist in America? Which atheist has the most political power?

If anything, I think the fundies have the leaders and the dedication. The seculars have the institutions.

It's an interesting concept, this conflict. It seems inevitable that the world will become free-er and more secular, just by looking at history. But the christians feel so much stronger about evolution and gay marriage, than, say interracial marriage and civil rights.

I don't mean just atheists; just general liberalism, regardless of religion, is considered on the other side of the culture war. Kerry, Clinton, etc.