Allah and God
 

I don't know a lot about Islam, but can someone help me out with some scripture to prove that the Muslim "Allah" is not the same as our "God"?

Also, any good reference material for an overview of Islam

Thanks

Naomi

The Christian God is the Father, Son, & Holy Spirit who gives the grace to spend eternity with him without any merit on man's part. Allah is not the Father, Son & Holy Spirit & does not give the grace necessary to be saved.

this isnt totally on topic but is something to relate christianity to islam with
its comparing jesus to muhammad
a woman who was caught in the act of adultry was brought before muhammad and she was pregnant. he told her to ween her child and come back to him when she finished. she did and he had her buried up to her neck and then something to kill her

the same thing happened to jesus and the woman was to be stoned. and he said let he who is without sin himself cast the first stone.

i hope this can help you compare the religions although it doesnt answer you question remotely...i tried :)

Naomi. The word "Allah" is simply "God" in Arabic. Muslims recognize the Christians and the Jews as "People of the Book" and believe in (their interpretation of) Abraham, Moses, and Jesus. They believe Jesus (Isa) was a prophet but they do not believe he died on the cross (he was taken into heaven) and they do not believe he was the Son of God. They believe that in the end times, Isa will return to defeat Dajjal, the AntiChrist. They believe after 19 (if I remember correctly) years he will marry and have many children, then will die in his 40th year back on earth and be buried next to the prophet Muhammed.

There are many things that point show that they are not the same. I don't have my Qur'an on hand right now, so I'll go off of memory best that I know how.

Secret Origins:
Allah (once called Al-laih) first started as one of the chief gods (the moon-god) in the Kaaba. His rule was over more then 360 other idols that were in that place as well (yes, he too, was an idol). Muhammed disagreed with his poeples regards for polytheism. So this self-proclaimed prophet entered the Kaaba and destroyed all the idols (including Allah) and kept only the perosn of Allah for the one true god. He confided in his closest friend later saying that is was only so that his people would have something consistent in their lives (why he chose Allah).

Compared to the God of the Bible, the origins are quite different.

The Nature of the Qur'an:
Muhammed was believed to be the last prophet of Allah (The one before was Jesus). His word written in the Qur'an is to be the final words of Allah. The problem is that, The Qur'an is inconsitent. In order for something to be true, it must remain consistent to its nature. The Qur'amn fails here.

but it also denies the Bible on several levels. It tells (though not forth right) that God does indeed change, which goes against God's word and makes Him a liar (Major problem here).

The Qur'an teaches war.... Not only war, but hate...
The Qur'an
Surah 9:5
"But when the sacred months elapse, then fight and slay the pagans where ever you find them and seize them, besiege them and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war). But if they repent and establish regular prayers, and practice regular charity, then open the way for them for Allah is oft-forgiving, Most Merciful."

Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyya said in his book that was published in Sudia Arabia,

"When the prophet migrated from Mecca and Medina, God ordered him to fight those who fought him only. Then when the chapter of Repentance was revealed, God commanded His prophet to fight anyone who did not become a Muslim from among the Arabs, whether (that person) fought him for not. He did not command him to take a poll-tax from infidels."

Dr. Muhammad Sa'id al-Buti said in his book 'The Jurisprudence of the Biography.'

"The verse (Surah 9:5) does not leave any room in the mind to conjecture about that is called a defensive war. This verse asserts Holy War which is demanded in Islamic Law, is not defensive war."

"The Holy War, a sit is known in Islamic Jurisprudence,is basically an offensive war. This is the duty of Muslims in every age when needed military power becomes available to them. This is the phrase in which the meaning of Holy War has taken its final form. Thus the apostle of Godsaid: 'I was commanded to fight the people until they believe in God and his message...'"

Dr. Muhammad al-Aminsaid said in his book, 'The Method of Islamic Law.'
"No infidel [unbeliever] should be left on his land as it is denoted from Muhammad (The prophet's) statement: 'I was commanded to fight the people...'"

Jesus? Who?:
The Qur'an (and Islam) deny that Christ was really God, or the Son of God. They hold Him to just be another prophet who preached peace. They (Islam) say that he was the most beloved of Allah, and was caught up with Allah before dying. They believe that Judas took on Christ's form and died on the cross instead.. (Which is impossible, because it also said Judas was leading thr crowd to Christ).

The message of Bible is focused on Christ and His finished work on the cross. If you deny this, then you deny the heart of the Bible.

These are only a few of the mountains of information that is posed against God and Allah being the same. Some have been mentioned, other heavier ones have not yet been so. The difference is obvious...

This isn't completely true. The Islamic governments make sure you are very careful to only say "Allah" and not "God," or you can be killed. In the original language, it actually did not mean "God" but a certain God. The modern world has tried to chnage the meaning to appeal to other nations...

VERY loosely. This is actually only taught once or twice in the whole of the Qur'an. The others teach that such should be killed.


This thread should be considered for Apologetics..

Cite it.

Amazing! The Jewish God also has secret origins! Did you know that one of his names, Elohim or El, was also the name of a chief Canaanite god? His other name, Yahweh, was apparently worshipped as a bull-headed deity by Jews i 800 BC. Yahweh had a consort named Asherah, a name that appears several times int he Bible and is also derived from Canaanite mythology. Yahweh, in the Bible, creates the world in almost the exact same way that Marduk does in the Babylonian creation epic Enuma Elish -- by dividing waters from waters, sky from earth, light from darkness, and speaking to create things. Also like Marduk Yahweh defeated the sea (see various psalms for descriptions of Yahweh smashing the heads of water dragons, or Rahab, aka Tiamat in the Babylonian) and afterwards, apparently, consolidated power from the council of gods and subjegated them (see heavenly council or sons of god in the OT). Yahweh/El also derives quite a bit from the Babylonian moon god Sin, who is described as the eternal father, controller of destiny; Sin's cult believed that every seventh or so day was sacred/astrologically significant and forbid working or doing anything important (these days were called Shabatu). Sin was associated with bulls, since the moon has "horns," and in the picture we have of Yahweh he has a bull's head.

Howso? Both gods used to be pagan deities. It's striking how similar the history of their names of God are, actually. Thanks for bringing this up!

Does it fail as bad as the Bible? How old was Ahaziah when he ascended the throne? What color was the robe that the Romans gave to Jesus? When were animals created, before or after man? (I could go on and on and on)

Yes, as the Bible is an incomplete and corrupted version of true revelation.

Please cite it! God is perfect, all-loving, merciful.

WOW! It really is a lot like the Bible!

Dt. 13
If anyone secretly entices you--even if it is your brother, your father's son or your mother's son, or your own son or daughter, or the wife you embrace, or your most intimate friend--saying, "Let us go worship other gods," whom neither you nor your ancestors have known, any of the gods of the peoples that are around you, whether near you or far away from you, from one end of the earth to the other, you must not yield to or heed any such persons. Show them no pity or compassion and do not shield them. But you shall surely kill them; your own hand shall be first against them to execute them, and afterwards the hand of all the people. Stone them to death for trying to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. Then all Israel shall hear and be afraid, and never again do any such wickedness.

Dt. 7:2
And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them:

Dt. 20:13
And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword: But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given thee. Note: in the cities God gives you, you're supposed to kill every living thing, even the plants

Josh 6:21
And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword. (Note: rinse and repeat for this one! Joshua does this to at least 25 different kingdoms)

WOW! People have used the Quran as an excuse for violence? SO HAVE CHRISTIANS! It's like these religions are the exact same thing!

Pope Urban II said in his speech which was given in an attempt to convince Europeans to basically go on a murder spree in the Middle East:

All who die by the way, whether by land or by sea, or in battle against the pagans, shall have immediate remission of sins. This I grant them through the power of God with which I am invested. O what a disgrace if such a despised and base race, which worships demons, should conquer a people which has the faith of omnipotent God and is made glorious with the name of Christ! With what reproaches will the Lord overwhelm us if you do not aid those who, with us, profess the Christian religion! Let those who have been accustomed unjustly to wage private warfare against the faithful now go against the infidels and end with victory this war which should have been begun long ago. Let those who for a long time, have been robbers, now become knights. Let those who have been fighting against their brothers and relatives now fight in a proper way against the barbarians. Let those who have been serving as mercenaries for small pay now obtain the eternal reward. Let those who have been wearing themselves out in both body and soul now work for a double honor. Behold! on this side will be the sorrowful and poor, on that, the rich; on this side, the enemies of the Lord, on that, his friends. Let those who go not put off the journey, but rent their lands and collect money for their expenses; and as soon as winter is over and spring comes, let hem eagerly set out on the way with God as their guide.

But if you are hindered by love of children, parents and wives, remember what the Lord says in the Gospel, "He that loveth father or mother more than me, is not worthy of me." "Every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands for my name's sake shall receive an hundredfold and shall inherit everlasting life."

from http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/urban2-5vers.html

The Malleus Maleficarum, a 15th century texts used to discover, try, and torture "witches" in Europe, also uses the Bible to support its exhortations to violence.

That to deny the existence of witches is contrary to the obvious sense of the Canon is shown by ecclesiastical law.

....

THE Judge should act as follows in the continuation of the torture. First he should bear in mind that, just as the same medicine is not applicable to all the members, but there are various and distinct salves for each several member, so not all heretics or those accused of heresy are to be subjected to the same method of questioning, examination and torture as to the charges laid against them; but various and different means are to be employed according to their various natures and persons. Now a surgeon cuts off rotten limbs; and mangy sheep are isolated from the healthy; but a prudent Judge will not consider it safe to bind himself down to one invariable rule in his method of dealing with a prisoner who is endowed with a witch's power of taciturnity, and whose silence he is unable to overcome. For if the sons of darkness were to become accustomed to one general rule they would provide means of evading it as a well-known snare set for their destruction.

(This book is one of the most horrible things ever written; it commands you to torture people accused of being witches by making them carry red hot irons, exposing them, drowning them, etc ... all in the name of the Bible!

Please cite it! This is not from the Quran.

Well so far this is the only actual difference you've pointed out in your entire post! Yes, the Quran does deny that Jesus is the son of God. In fact, the Quran quotes Jesus as saying so.

And behold! God will say [i.e. on the Day of Judgment]: 'Oh Jesus, the son of Mary! Did you say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of God?' He will say: 'Glory to Thee! Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would indeed have known it. You know what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Yours. For You know in full all that is hidden. Never did I say to them anything except what You commanded me to say: 'Worship God, my Lord and your Lord.' And I was a witness over them while I lived among them. When You took me up, You were the Watcher over them, and You are a witness to all things' (5:116-117).

Well, after this post, I'm not so sure anymore. I mean, both Allah and Yahweh were derived from pagan gods. Both the Bible and Quran are full of contradictions. Both the Bible and the Quran explicitly command believers to do violence onto nonbelievers. Both the Bible and the Quran have been used to justify violence over the course of history. The only real difference is that the Quran actually claims to be written by God, and criticizes the Bible for being corrupt; whereas the Bible is not really aware of the Quran at all.

Sort of like how in the Bible, God's name is El or Yahweh -- canaanite gods. Or in the Greek his name is Deus, a derivitive of Zeus.

What others? Other Qurans? There is one passage that commands you to lie in wait and ambush the unbelievers. There are many passages that command you to respect the people of the book, to not persecute them, to allow them to live peacefully as long as they pay taxes, etc. (Compared with the Bible which commands you to stone unbelievers to death unequivacably).

'Praps. Though if you want to leave it in theology, I'll stop posting :)

Quick, simple answer for you. Muslims do not believe Jesus was the son of God. In fact, I'm pretty sure they do not believe he ever claimed to be. Other than this, the "God" part of their stories is really the same as the Christian God and the Jewish God.

We really need a person of the Islam faith on this board...

as far as I know, the word "allah" means "god". it is both the name and meaning of the word, much in the same way God means both deity and is the name we use for God. I haven't heard any other words used to describe a deity.

the only problem with that is that many of them honestly don't know what their holy book teaches. one of my favorite teachers is a palestinian muslim, and she's a pacifist. if she were a fundamental muslim, she wouldn't be a pacifist because that is not what they teach. I honestly don't believe she even knows half of what the quran teaches, yet she's very devout; she attends the mosque, observes ramadan, is preparing for her pilgrimmage to Mecca, and thinks that jihad is an internal war with one's self.

Meaning of "Allah"
 

I call God 'Allah' when I speak about Him or pray to Him in Indonesian. Indonesian got the word from Arabic.

Lyle said that 'Allah' used to be 'Allaih.' Do you have a source for that? The derivation from Semitic linguistis and Arabic professor's I've heard and read is that Allah came from 'Al-illah.' Another theory is that it came from 'Alaha' in Aramaic. Both words are cognate with the Hebrew word for God in Hebrew.

Look at the following words, particularly the consonants:

'Eloah
'illah

What I knew of Arabic is rusty. I am not sure if the 'l' is doubled in illah. Anyway, notice the triliteral root- glottal stop, L, H. See the two words are cognate. Eloah is God in Hebrew in the singular. 'El' is also used to refer to God in name combinations, and is believed to be cognate with 'il' in 'illah.'

'Al' is 'the' in Arabic, so 'Al illah' is 'the god' or 'the God'.

My Arabic professors, Muslims, claimed that Christians and Jews before Muhammad called God Allah. I haven't been able to find references to written liturgies or scripture translations in Arabic from the time-period, but I did run across some information that 'Abdullah' was a common baptized name for Christians, which is pretty good evidence. Abdullah is a combination of 'abd (servant) and 'Allah.' It means servant of 'Allah.' Compare to Obadiah in Hebrew, servant of the LORD.

There was a famous martyr named Abdallah in Arab Christian history before Muhammad. He was a convert, so I do no know if he got his name before or after conversion (baptism name for example.) A counter argument to the Christian baptize name Abdullah being evidence for use of 'Allah' by Christians would be that they were named after this other guy, and not because the Christians used 'Allah' to refer to God. But this seems unlikely to me. I think it is unlikely that a name identifying a man as the servant of a pagan moon God would be a popular baptism name for Christians. 'Apollos' never even really caught on as a Christian name in the west, even though an early Christian had this name.

In Sabea (Sheba possibly, in modern day Yemen), some pagans called their moon god 'the god'-- or 'Allah' and their sun goddess 'the goddess' or 'Allat.' This does not illegitimize the name 'Allah' for God imo, particularly if Christians and Jews used it for God.

Allah is believed to be cognate with 'El.' In the Bible 'El' refers to God, but it is also used in reference to pagan gods. The Canaanite town of Ugarit was dug up by archeologists. They found references to the head of a pagan pantheon named 'El.' He got drunk and fell in his own excrement in one of the stories. Does the fac`t that the pagans used the name 'El' to refer to their false concept of God illegitimize the name? The authors of the Bible didn't think so. God still used the word to refer to Himself in the messages he gave through prophets.

So we should not conclude that the pre-Islamic pagan use of 'Allah' makes the use of the name in reference to God illegitimat.

Moon god worship may have had some influence on Islam, particularly in art. I saw a web page that showed that the crescent moon and star symbol, on top of mosques was on a carving of the Sebean moon god's chest-- turned a different direction.

'Theos' not from 'Zeus.'
 

The Greek word for 'God' is 'theos.' Sometimes it appears with a definite article (compare to 'Allah' in Arabic.)

I read a missionaries book in which he mentioned briefly that 'Theos' came from Zeus. One of college professors, an expert in etymology, disagreed.

According to one of my linguistic professors, who knew about 32 languages at the time, most of them dead languages, including Greek and Latin: 'Theos' the Greek word for God does not come from the word for Zeus. The ProtoIndoEuropean word was from a completely different root than the one from which 'Zeus' descended he said. I forget what it was, heaven or sky perhaps. If you asked him a question bout such things in class, and it was on topic, he would excitedly bounce up and down on his tiptoes and reconstruct the word from ProtoIndoEuropean, showing the sound changes through time in the language in question in one column, and showing cognate words from related languages in the other column.

Qur'an on the Bible
 

Qingu,

Actually, from what I have read, the Qur'an does not say that the Bible is corrupted. Instead, it says that God gave the Torah and the Injil (Gospels) and speaks positively of the Psalms (Zabur.) Between the Qur'an and the hadith, Islam teaches that if someone wants to know about God, he should ask those who read the Torah and the Injil.

So Muslims are supposed to ask Christians if they want to know about God.

The Qur'an also says that Jesus is the Word of God. And I have heard that it says that He died to, although Islamic scholars redefine the word just for that one verse.

The bull-headed religion you speak of is the kind of religion the Bible condemns. The kings of the northern kingdom had their people worshipping golden calves in some kind of hybrid religion that was a mix of Judaism and idolatry. This is not what God commanded Israel to do when they came out of Egypt. Israel tried to worship God by making a golden calf early on, and got in trouble with God for it.