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-   -   Can I vent about my search today? (http://www.christianguitar.org/forums/t188875/)

ABPOS 08-14-2010 09:17 PM

I went to a couple of guitar stores today. I played some things I liked. Not really sure what to do yet.

But does anyone else have this problem? The times I've been to a guitar store, there's so much noise. I wish these places would give you like little playing booths that you could test them out.

The second store I went to, music go round, they play music in the store rather loudly. Because you know, the workers would be bored if they couldn't rock out at work. My son is playing the piano, there's a metal head checking out an amp with all the distortion you could muster out of one amp, and there is a worker walking around with an Amp strapped to himself cordless somehow playing riffs here and there. And here I am just trying to tune a stupid electric without an amp. For a little bit, I just sat there and stared with a guitar in my hand.

The first store I went to, there was of course your typical metal head showing off all his harmonic moves and power chords to be so heavy. Then when he left, another had to come in after about 10 minutes.

Anyways, that's my vent. But on to the technical.

I had a really hard time getting something to sound in tune. Part of it was, most of the new fenders I played have like 9's on them and they bend so easy over the frets. Even some of the lower frets I would notice I may press a little hard for it. I think thicker strings would remedy that, but it's hard to know what it's going to be like.

I play chords mostly and I'm not there to bust all these lead moves to impress everyone. Which I don't do much of anyways. But I'm telling you, it was a real challenge finding something that fit for my style. Part of it is me. I always have a really hard time with the G string, I either want to go too high with it or too low with it with tuning. And once the G is off, the rest is off. The other part is nothing is ever in tune, which I already knew that was going to be. And trying to tune with all the commotion, just isn't any fun.

I found tele's and strats that I liked. A couple of the mexicans I played actually seemed right on. And the American Strat I played was really nice too. This place had mostly new stuff. They were selling a standard Tele or strat MIM for $459 with a gig bag. Brand new. Which I thought was pretty good. One of the colors is actually pretty nice in the standard also. Some really dark red, like whine or something. Sharp.

Then there is a dilemma I have. I like certain things about the tele, and I have some dislikes. And the same goes for the strat. The Strat's body is more comfy and the neck profile is better. IMHO. However, the sound of the strat sometimes doesn't sit well with me and I don't like that middle pick up for sure. It just gets in my way sometimes. I like the Tele's flatness to it. It seems to say "strum me" to me. And I like the feel of it. Although the 72 reissue seemed better to me because on the back side, it's not flat like most of them. It has the sort of cut out that leans on your chest like a Strat, which I think is nice.

And I also wonder if there is another guitar other than fender that would fit my still. I played 2 ibanez' now and they haven't flipped my trigger. I think I played 1 peavey today briefly and I thought it was OK, but didn't feel as nice as the Fenders.

And then I saw on the Gibson website a thing called the "Wilshire" and my curiousity is piqued.

I know at some point I'll have to quit thinking about it and just do it if I want one. But the other side of me wants to research it a great deal in order for me to feel right about the choice I have. But I suppose you just do your best, get something that is close and set it up best you can, and if it doesn't work, move onto something else.

If I had to choose one from today, it would've been the tele 72 reissues deluxe. With a strat coming in close second. That's my gut feeling today. I think if I go strat though, I'm going to have to reposition the pickups, or get new ones. Which brings me to a point about Fenders, they seem like they have a little more flexibility in what you can do with them. Swap necks, pick ups. Where another type you can just do pick ups.

I'm open to comments. Anybody have any experience with this Gibson /Epiphone wilshire? Or any Epiphone that could work? Or something else? I wonder if a Rickenbacker wouldn't be a good choice. Except I think they might be a little more than I want to spend. I don't know.

And by the way, thanks for listening! :clap:

Rainer. 08-15-2010 12:03 PM

Would you consider buying a Strat that sounded and felt good to you, then getting a pickguard that didn't have a middle pickup in it at all, and re-mounting the electronics in there, with a bridge and neck pickup only, and a three-way switch?

ABPOS 08-15-2010 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rainer. (Post 3582216)
Would you consider buying a Strat that sounded and felt good to you, then getting a pickguard that didn't have a middle pickup in it at all, and re-mounting the electronics in there, with a bridge and neck pickup only, and a three-way switch?

That's funny, when I woke up this morning, the thought you just said kept recurring to me. I played a Mexican Standard Strat at Music Go Round yesterday, in that dark red wine color I liked, and I liked how it played. It was one of the ones at the end. But they only wanted like 239 for it if my memory is correct. It looked just like the new one the other store had, but I think it was much cheaper because it had a scratch on it. Which I'm pretty sure I could care less about. Then that would give me some extra money to reconfigure it. I'm not really sure how exactly I would do it and how much it would cost, but I know it can be done. And I think I might get the best of both worlds with this approach. I think you can even take 2 single coils and put them together in one spot. Which then all I'd need is a pickguard. And you can use the same selector switch and you have basically a humbucker in one of the positions. Sort of, I guess. And this kind of overcomes the things I don't like about the strat which is sometimes I think they sound kind of strange (to twangy or tinny), but changing pickups around or even getting new ones could overcome this.

I have been praying about it and I get the sense that this may be the better route. Either way I don't think that one I saw yesterday will be that exact one, but I'll at least know what direction to start working towards. I don't have all the money I need yet. I am going to sell something that will give me enough, but I haven't done it yet. I could just put it on the CC and pay it off, but that's not the way I roll with things that aren't a necessity. I already have an acoustic to play. But like I said, finding something a little cheaper that I can customize will give me some leaway with pickups and then money towards an amp.

It will give me some time to research what exactly I want to do with the pick ups. I like the sound of the single coil on the neck, so I'd rather move 2 up there and then possibly get a humbucker for the bridge. But I'm still unsure what pickguards are available. And which humbucker to get.

You got any suggestions? I saw these "black Dove" humbuckers on a new tele that one might be kind of good for the bridge. Or just put two in of those.

Rainer. 08-15-2010 01:08 PM

The best plan, I think, is to get a Strat that you like the feel of, slap one of these on:
http://www.guitarfetish.com/Dual-P90...ite_p_244.html
Dual P90/HB Pre Wired Pickguard- Black

And you'll be ready to rock. :)

Josey Wales 08-15-2010 04:07 PM

dude i have that same problem at guitar center near me. i go in loud music, lots of people in there shredding away. usually i just go in there for parts now. but whats worse is the theres a best buy near me that now has a guitar shop in it. i went in once just to check out some strats and tele's and the workers were jaming as loud as humanly possible.... one was on drums one was on 6 string and one on bass.. i could barely think.... they wouldn't help me out either when i wanted to grab the strat way at the top of the rack, they do have little booths but it was useless.

so i did find the perfect store, musicianss superstore and it's right between the GC and best buy. everytime i go in there, there isn't many people, they do sometimes have music or a music dvd on, like laast time it was the crossroads guitar festival so i sat and watched for a little. but it isn't to loud. i picked up a guitar, got it tuned up played it a while just me it was pretty cool, the people there are awesome too. so from now on i will go there.

ABPOS 08-15-2010 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rainer. (Post 3582232)
The best plan, I think, is to get a Strat that you like the feel of, slap one of these on:
Dual P90/HB Style Strat pickguard- Prewired- White
Dual P90/HB Pre Wired Pickguard- Black

And you'll be ready to rock. :)

WOW! Thank your for this advice. I could be closer to the set up I want then I think. Who makes those P-90's? Warmoth is selling a single p-90(duncans) for 82 bucks. What gives?

I still really like the idea of the Tele Deluxe RI 72, but this would be the next best thing and not cost as much. And it would probably sound pretty darn good. But it just seems like that price is WAY too good. If it's good stuff, I'm pretty excited.

http://www.fender.com/themes/product...7702306_md.jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by josey wales (Post 3582277)
dude i have that same problem at guitar center near me. i go in loud music, lots of people in there shredding away. usually i just go in there for parts now. but whats worse is the theres a best buy near me that now has a guitar shop in it. i went in once just to check out some strats and tele's and the workers were jaming as loud as humanly possible.... one was on drums one was on 6 string and one on bass.. i could barely think.... they wouldn't help me out either when i wanted to grab the strat way at the top of the rack, they do have little booths but it was useless.

so i did find the perfect store, musicianss superstore and it's right between the GC and best buy. everytime i go in there, there isn't many people, they do sometimes have music or a music dvd on, like laast time it was the crossroads guitar festival so i sat and watched for a little. but it isn't to loud. i picked up a guitar, got it tuned up played it a while just me it was pretty cool, the people there are awesome too. so from now on i will go there.

So that's what they call that? Shredding? Hehehe:-/ Well, to each his own, but I wish the stores around here would have booths like you're talking about and/ or at the least not play the house music so loud. I can understand guys being loud, testing out amps and such, but add to that all the commotion by the workers and it's just plain ridiculous. Best Buy won't sell too many guitars that way for sure.

Rainer. 08-16-2010 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABPOS (Post 3582314)
WOW! Thank your for this advice. I could be closer to the set up I want then I think. Who makes those P-90's? Warmoth is selling a single p-90(duncans) for 82 bucks. What gives?

I still really like the idea of the Tele Deluxe RI 72, but this would be the next best thing and not cost as much. And it would probably sound pretty darn good. But it just seems like that price is WAY too good. If it's good stuff, I'm pretty excited.

http://www.fender.com/themes/product...7702306_md.jpg

That's a really nice axe, too. Darn sexy!

ABPOS 08-16-2010 11:27 AM

Yes it is. I actually like the mahogany colored one better. And they had one at that shop. It played nice too. I could go either way on this one. But this one is $690 new. And I'm starting to find strats that I like for much less. It's not an easy choice though, because this one is nice.

BillSPrestonEsq 08-16-2010 07:31 PM

I'm just going to throw this out...

I am NOT fond of P90s with a strat formula. I don't find they sound right. That said...

I would go with a partscaster or warmoth here for budget. Honestly, I'd probably grab a pine body or poplar off of ebay or warmoth if you want a solid color, a tele neck, and a set of humbuckers or whatever you like. If you do go with a tele, I got some interesting info from someone last week on the bridges.

a coat of black nitro, and one or two of clear would yield a nice, thin finish that would look good. Especially if you don't want a super glossy black.

I am not fond of the new, import peavey's at all.

ABPOS 08-16-2010 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillSPrestonEsq (Post 3582509)
I'm just going to throw this out...

I am NOT fond of P90s with a strat formula. I don't find they sound right. That said...

I would go with a partscaster or warmoth here for budget. Honestly, I'd probably grab a pine body or poplar off of ebay or warmoth if you want a solid color, a tele neck, and a set of humbuckers or whatever you like. If you do go with a tele, I got some interesting info from someone last week on the bridges.

a coat of black nitro, and one or two of clear would yield a nice, thin finish that would look good. Especially if you don't want a super glossy black.

I am not fond of the new, import peavey's at all.


You got any thoughts on this Epiphone Wilshire? I have yet to see one on a shelf, but I'm intrigued.
Gibson.com: Epiphone 1966 Wilshire

I am very fond of a tele. I'm not sure what you're saying with all that other than you think I can build one. I'm not so sure it's a good idea. I could just go with a plane jain tele, or this deluxe model. The Plain Jane Mexican I played at the first store on saturday was pretty nice. I wouldn't complain and the price wasn't bad. I feel like the neck on a Strat has a little better feel to it and that shaping on the body that rests against your chest is nice. Which this deluxe has.

What don't you like about the P90's and a strat? I wouldn't have a clue as I don't think I've ever been around one. I have seen a bunch of them with a humbucker by the bridge. Which, could be cool, but that still leaves me with the fact that I don't want that middle pick up. I am still toying with somehow just moving it up closer to the neck pick up. Even if I had to cut out my own pickgaurd. That could work.

So.... I don't know if I know anything more except I like aspects of both. There may have been a reason I always settled on a tele in my younger days.

So, let me get this straight, a Gibson has a little bit less wider neck than a fender?

BillSPrestonEsq 08-16-2010 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABPOS (Post 3582552)
You got any thoughts on this Epiphone Wilshire? I have yet to see one on a shelf, but I'm intrigued.
Gibson.com: Epiphone 1966 Wilshire

I am very fond of a tele. I'm not sure what you're saying with all that other than you think I can build one. I'm not so sure it's a good idea. I could just go with a plane jain tele, or this deluxe model. The Plain Jane Mexican I played at the first store on saturday was pretty nice. I wouldn't complain and the price wasn't bad. I feel like the neck on a Strat has a little better feel to it and that shaping on the body that rests against your chest is nice. Which this deluxe has.

Really it is four screws and a tiny bit of soldering and then a basic set up. Easy stuff.
Quote:

What don't you like about the P90's and a strat?
Just doesn't sound right. It has a bit of a brittle tonality. The p90 goes better IMO with a mahogany necked guitar.
Quote:

I wouldn't have a clue as I don't think I've ever been around one. I have seen a bunch of them with a humbucker by the bridge. Which, could be cool, but that still leaves me with the fact that I don't want that middle pick up. I am still toying with somehow just moving it up closer to the neck pick up. Even if I had to cut out my own pickgaurd. That could work.
Or there are tons of custom places that will cut you one for around $30.
Quote:

So.... I don't know if I know anything more except I like aspects of both. There may have been a reason I always settled on a tele in my younger days.
I like teles, but they are very simple machines.
Quote:

So, let me get this straight, a Gibson has a little bit less wider neck than a fender?
no. It all depends. a 60's neck is pretty slim. The 50's neck is not IIRC, (well the neck they call 50s contour, my 1951 is fairly medium-slim). I have a really beefy Gibson neck. They are a bit shorter as a rule. 24 3/4 as opposed to 25.5.

ABPOS 08-17-2010 09:35 AM

It's strange because the fender website says the neck scale is 24" for a strat and 25.5" for a tele. I would've thought it was the other way around. And you're saying the Gibson is shorter also. I like the shorter.

You didn't say anything about the Wilshire. Have you seen one yet? It seems like it might be a new product.

Last night I watched a Newsboys DVD for some inspiration. It is a live Houston show for the Go tour. Great video and I highly recommend it. The lead guitarist played a Les Paul mostly, about 3 songs with a tele and 3 or 4 with a strat. They all do sound very different. Peter was playing two hollow bodies and one was a gretsch. I was on Gretsch's website the other day just DROOLING. They even make solid body guitars, which I had forgotten. I think some of them were somewhat reasonable in price, but others were out of this world. Kind of like the Gibson Website.

I am really wondering if a hollow body wouldn't fit my requirements. More of a clean sound with strumming and open chords, bar chords. Not so much screaming leads, ehehehe. If I found the right epiphone, I don't think that would be a bad thing. Jars of clay seem to use hollow bodies quite a bit too, I think.

You got any input on any of what I just said? The strat just makes me nervous. I like the way they feel and play, except I'm really not crazy about their sound and I never was. You can probably change that with some tweaking, but I'd hate to buy one and not be happy with it. Of course, that's the dilemma with any of them I guess. Like I said before, at some point I'll just have to bite the bullet and make it work as best I can with whatever amp I get.

Thanks for letting me think aloud guys and keep your input coming if you want.

thesteve 08-17-2010 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABPOS (Post 3582601)
It's strange because the fender website says the neck scale is 24" for a strat and 25.5" for a tele. I would've thought it was the other way around. And you're saying the Gibson is shorter also. I like the shorter.

You should check again. Both the Stratocaster and Telecaster scale lengths should be 25.5".

Josey Wales 08-17-2010 09:48 AM

dude,
get one of these

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/e...s/325C58JG.jpg

john lennon and george harrison played a rickenbacker at some point. :D

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o...ckenbacker.jpg

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k2...ckenbacker.jpg

i realize it's a little different than what you were talking about, but you were talking about gretsch, so i thought i'd throw this out there...

BillSPrestonEsq 08-17-2010 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABPOS (Post 3582601)
It's strange because the fender website says the neck scale is 24" for a strat and 25.5" for a tele. I would've thought it was the other way around. And you're saying the Gibson is shorter also. I like the shorter.

You didn't say anything about the Wilshire. Have you seen one yet? It seems like it might be a new product.

Heard of it, have seen pictures, haven't played one. Not really my cup of tea. For a double humbucker guitar I really like a Les Paul best.
Quote:

Last night I watched a Newsboys DVD for some inspiration. It is a live Houston show for the Go tour. Great video and I highly recommend it. The lead guitarist played a Les Paul mostly, about 3 songs with a tele and 3 or 4 with a strat. They all do sound very different. Peter was playing two hollow bodies and one was a gretsch. I was on Gretsch's website the other day just DROOLING. They even make solid body guitars, which I had forgotten. I think some of them were somewhat reasonable in price, but others were out of this world. Kind of like the Gibson Website.
I would never pay new prices. I own a ton of Gibsons, a good number of which were under $500.
Quote:

I am really wondering if a hollow body wouldn't fit my requirements. More of a clean sound with strumming and open chords, bar chords. Not so much screaming leads, ehehehe. If I found the right epiphone, I don't think that would be a bad thing. Jars of clay seem to use hollow bodies quite a bit too, I think.
Maybe semi hollow would be my thought. I really like mine. Full hollow can get a bit feedbacky with the distortion up. I have a Gibson Lucille I picked up on the cheap and I really, really like it.
Quote:

You got any input on any of what I just said? The strat just makes me nervous. I like the way they feel and play, except I'm really not crazy about their sound and I never was. You can probably change that with some tweaking, but I'd hate to buy one and not be happy with it. Of course, that's the dilemma with any of them I guess. Like I said before, at some point I'll just have to bite the bullet and make it work as best I can with whatever amp I get.
You can never fully destrat a strat. Trust me, I have tried. I HATE the way my playing sounds with a strat. I think a hardtail one might not have that be the case, but to me the trem adds a certain springiness to the sound that drives me crazy.

Quote:

Thanks for letting me think aloud guys and keep your input coming if you want.

I like building, but right now, I would guess that you probably should go with your favorite guitar. I find that no matter what gear I have, I want to still get that guitar I wanted in the first place. Hence why I have gone through probably 70+ guitars and I have an LP Custom that I am happy as a clam with.

Though, if you like the epi wilshire, I think the gretsch vibe is along the same vein. (The Italian guitars of the 60s which kind of inspire the Wilshire are 3 grand usually when I have seen them, and not that great.)

Rics tend to have a really slim neck. You will either find it extremely comfortable or uncomfortable. I have tiny hands so the Ric neck is a nice fit.

ABPOS 08-17-2010 02:40 PM

Well Jose, you bring up an interesting option. I had thought about that also, but dismissed it in my mind because I always felt that they had kind of a changly sound. Almost too bright. But it has been forever since I played one and even at that, I never played one enough to know how they sound through an amp. I will have to visit their website.

Bill, I think you are possibly correct about the strat's sound. It's still not completely discounted in my mind, but I know that was the conclusion I came to a long time ago. But again with this, I never owned one, I just played in a band with one and even though she played it really really well, the sounds always kind of bugged me a little. But hers was completely stock with the pickups probably where I wouldn't want them.

This is a good learning process though. Because I'm learning that different models of different fenders have different size frets. Which I think that means some have a higher profile than others. I want the lowest profile I can get. After playing acoustics a lot, I have a tenancy to press hard. And if the frets are too high and the strings too small, it throws everything out of tune. In fact, I don't really see how someone gets away with playing with high profile frets. I suppose if you're a lead guitarists that plays nice and light to the touch, you might want this, but that's not me. LOL!

Josey Wales 08-17-2010 03:53 PM

well yes the rick will be a little more bright and chingy, and twangy. and honestly i like that sound, a lot of vintage music that i love has that kind of guitar sound in it, either with a rick/tele/ or like a gibson dot hollow body kind of sound. even the beatles used one of those, theres a lot of picures, and videos where george is using a sunburst hollowbody gibson... :D

Rainer. 08-17-2010 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillSPrestonEsq (Post 3582607)
You can never fully destrat a strat. Trust me, I have tried. I HATE the way my playing sounds with a strat. I think a hardtail one might not have that be the case, but to me the trem adds a certain springiness to the sound that drives me crazy.

Why would you want to de-Strat a Strat? :D

But no, actually, I'm pretty sure I'm the same way with semi-hollowbodies as you are with Strats. I can't make a semi-hollow sound right in my hands at all, but with a Strat, oh, all is right with the world. :drink:

As far as high-profile frets, I have much larger frets on my Strat than the usual Fender (installed by a previous owner). Keeping the fingers off of the actual fingerboard reduces friction, making slides and other vertical motion and also big bends and wide vibrato much easier.

BillSPrestonEsq 08-17-2010 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rainer. (Post 3582693)
Why would you want to de-Strat a Strat? :D

But no, actually, I'm pretty sure I'm the same way with semi-hollowbodies as you are with Strats. I can't make a semi-hollow sound right in my hands at all, but with a Strat, oh, all is right with the world. :drink:

because I sound terrible with a strat. Always. I love semi-hollow bodies.

Low frets? I would go with a well used gibson.

ABPOS 08-17-2010 10:02 PM

Well, what I know now, is that I'm going to have to play a lot more guitars. hehehehehehe I don't know if 'm totally opposed to a full hollow body because I don't know how much "hard core jamming" I'd be doing. I'm getting older, and my tastes are changing. I like to listen to sort of heavy stuff once in a while, but really, I doubt I'll be playing like that in the future. I could be wrong, but that's my thoughts at this point. My goal is to really focus on a cleaner sound. I had a lifetime full of distortion, and to me, it doesn't necessarily make the music so much greater. Yes, it adds some excitement and punch and whatever else you want to say, but, I'm liking cleaner sounds as I mature. I'm only 38, but that's just me. Plus, that's not to say you can't use SOME distortion with a full hollow without feeding back. Other factors come into play. How loud is everything else, how high do you have your amp. How big is your amp, etc etc.

And then there is amps. DOH! I have been debating about getting an amp first, to run my acoustic through. And if I can find one that would do well for the acoustic and an electric. I don't know.

Again, I'm learning a lot, so thanks for the input and keep it coming.

BillSPrestonEsq 08-17-2010 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABPOS (Post 3582750)
Well, what I know now, is that I'm going to have to play a lot more guitars. hehehehehehe I don't know if 'm totally opposed to a full hollow body because I don't know how much "hard core jamming" I'd be doing. I'm getting older, and my tastes are changing. I like to listen to sort of heavy stuff once in a while, but really, I doubt I'll be playing like that in the future. I could be wrong, but that's my thoughts at this point. My goal is to really focus on a cleaner sound. I had a lifetime full of distortion, and to me, it doesn't necessarily make the music so much greater. Yes, it adds some excitement and punch and whatever else you want to say, but, I'm liking cleaner sounds as I mature. I'm only 38, but that's just me. Plus, that's not to say you can't use SOME distortion with a full hollow without feeding back. Other factors come into play. How loud is everything else, how high do you have your amp. How big is your amp, etc etc.

And then there is amps. DOH! I have been debating about getting an amp first, to run my acoustic through. And if I can find one that would do well for the acoustic and an electric. I don't know.

Again, I'm learning a lot, so thanks for the input and keep it coming.

are you looking for a fairly low watt jam amp? I got one idea I like. (and its cheap and weighs next to nothing)

Personally, if I were you, I'd find a gibson Lucille. I wish I could let you play mine. It sounds great even under heavy distortion, but b.b. king is not known for his distortion tone.

Full hollow bodies have a different tonality to me. If dirty delta blues are your thing, my full hollowbody would do it. I might check out a Godin kingpin if you could. Made in Canada and Godin makes good stuff for a almost silly price. tend to have chunkier necks...

But I would try a 335, a lucille and some hollowbodies. Personally, you sound like the ibanez is the opposite of what you want.

gtrdave 08-18-2010 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABPOS (Post 3582750)

And then there is amps. DOH! I have been debating about getting an amp first, to run my acoustic through. And if I can find one that would do well for the acoustic and an electric.

That's unpossible. :duh:
Most electric guitar amps lack the ability to reproduce the wide dynamic range necessary for the acoustic guitar and you'd have to eq the pooh out of an acoustic amp to make it suitable for an electric.

My advice is don't buy an amp until you've settled on an electric guitar that you like.
Once you're happy with your electric purchase, you can then take that guitar around (or try something similar at the store) to try out some amps and get a nice compliment to your axe and your specific needs according to where you'll be using it most.

And as for guitars...if you can find an ESP LTD PB-500 to try out, you should give it a shot. Some of them were equipped with Duncan P-Rails pickups and the few that I tried out were GREAT players.
I think they've been discontinued as they were a bit of a hybrid guitar, but I've seen them on the used market for less than $300 and that is a steal of a price, imho.

jeepnstein 08-18-2010 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABPOS (Post 3582750)
Well, what I know now, is that I'm going to have to play a lot more guitars. hehehehehehe I don't know if 'm totally opposed to a full hollow body because I don't know how much "hard core jamming" I'd be doing. I'm getting older, and my tastes are changing. I like to listen to sort of heavy stuff once in a while, but really, I doubt I'll be playing like that in the future. I could be wrong, but that's my thoughts at this point. My goal is to really focus on a cleaner sound. I had a lifetime full of distortion, and to me, it doesn't necessarily make the music so much greater. Yes, it adds some excitement and punch and whatever else you want to say, but, I'm liking cleaner sounds as I mature. I'm only 38, but that's just me. Plus, that's not to say you can't use SOME distortion with a full hollow without feeding back. Other factors come into play. How loud is everything else, how high do you have your amp. How big is your amp, etc etc.

And then there is amps. DOH! I have been debating about getting an amp first, to run my acoustic through. And if I can find one that would do well for the acoustic and an electric. I don't know.

Again, I'm learning a lot, so thanks for the input and keep it coming.

Worry about an amp for your electric after you settle on a guitar. As far as the acoustic goes, just run straight to the PA with it.

ABPOS 08-18-2010 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillSPrestonEsq (Post 3582762)
are you looking for a fairly low watt jam amp? I got one idea I like. (and its cheap and weighs next to nothing)

Personally, if I were you, I'd find a gibson Lucille. I wish I could let you play mine. It sounds great even under heavy distortion, but b.b. king is not known for his distortion tone.

Full hollow bodies have a different tonality to me. If dirty delta blues are your thing, my full hollowbody would do it. I might check out a Godin kingpin if you could. Made in Canada and Godin makes good stuff for a almost silly price. tend to have chunkier necks...

But I would try a 335, a lucille and some hollowbodies. Personally, you sound like the ibanez is the opposite of what you want.


I think I saw the lucille on the website yesterday. I like the looks of the one that was made just for blink 182. It was white with a grey racing stripe. I thought it was cool, but it only has one pick up and It's like right in the middle. Which I'm not sure how that would be. But I think I do need to play some more. I had this guitar I used to play back in the day. It was this girl I knew Dad's guitar and I liked the sound of it. It was a cheapy and didn't stay in tune well, but I liked the sound for sure. And it was completely hollow and I still played it real loud sometimes. But I do remember feedback being kind of an issue. I had a pretty big amp though and that helped.

http://images1f.snapfish.com/2323232...%3B95339nu0mrj

Oh to be so young and full of life.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeepnstein (Post 3582800)
Worry about an amp for your electric after you settle on a guitar. As far as the acoustic goes, just run straight to the PA with it.

Yeah, that's what they always do at church. But if you don't have a PA and want to play with some folks......

Someone suggested a keyboard amp. Especially if I ever wanted to run a bass through it.

I know, I know, I'm all over the board with this stuff. I play drums, bass, and guitar and wouldn't mind having something of everything, so I'm trying to keep in mind for the future. But I realize usually if a thing that is trying to do more than one thing, it doesn't do anything well. But, I can still experiment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtrdave (Post 3582797)
That's unpossible. :duh:
Most electric guitar amps lack the ability to reproduce the wide dynamic range necessary for the acoustic guitar and you'd have to eq the pooh out of an acoustic amp to make it suitable for an electric.

My advice is don't buy an amp until you've settled on an electric guitar that you like.
Once you're happy with your electric purchase, you can then take that guitar around (or try something similar at the store) to try out some amps and get a nice compliment to your axe and your specific needs according to where you'll be using it most.

And as for guitars...if you can find an ESP LTD PB-500 to try out, you should give it a shot. Some of them were equipped with Duncan P-Rails pickups and the few that I tried out were GREAT players.
I think they've been discontinued as they were a bit of a hybrid guitar, but I've seen them on the used market for less than $300 and that is a steal of a price, imho.

Thanks for the advice. I didn't really remember anything about ESP's. Interesting thought.

gtrdave 08-18-2010 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABPOS (Post 3582821)
Yeah, that's what they always do at church. But if you don't have a PA and want to play with some folks......

Someone suggested a keyboard amp. Especially if I ever wanted to run a bass through it.

I know, I know, I'm all over the board with this stuff. I play drums, bass, and guitar and wouldn't mind having something of everything, so I'm trying to keep in mind for the future. But I realize usually if a thing that is trying to do more than one thing, it doesn't do anything well. But, I can still experiment.

Getting a keyboard amp is one way to kill a lot of birds with one big stone.
They work as keyboard amps (naturally) and they also work as bass and acoustic amps, too, somewhat.
As a guitar amp...I'd stick some pedals in between the guitar and amp and see how it performs before I'd make a call on it being a decent guitar amp, but in a pinch it would probably work ok.

BillSPrestonEsq 08-18-2010 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABPOS (Post 3582821)
Yeah, that's what they always do at church. But if you don't have a PA and want to play with some folks......

Someone suggested a keyboard amp. Especially if I ever wanted to run a bass through it.

I know, I know, I'm all over the board with this stuff. I play drums, bass, and guitar and wouldn't mind having something of everything, so I'm trying to keep in mind for the future. But I realize usually if a thing that is trying to do more than one thing, it doesn't do anything well. But, I can still experiment.

A keyboard amp would probably sound bad for electric guitar. You might go keyboard and guitar amp. (using keyboard for bass and acoustic.) Now a digital modeler into a keyboard amp could sound okay.

ABPOS 08-18-2010 11:23 AM

Here's another sidetrack question. I heard there are these things like pre amps that you can plug into your computer that allow you to play into your computer. With different affects and what not and possibly even record a little.

Anybody use one of these for practice? Keeping track of songs your wrote or riffs? And do they have more than one input so you could sing into it? Or more than one track? I would imagine there are tons of different types of these things, but wondering if there are some decent ones for the home computer that isn't meant asa professional piece that costs a grand. You know?

Rainer. 08-18-2010 11:31 AM

I think you're thinking of something like the Line 6 TonePort: POD Studio (formerly the TonePort):
http://line6.com/podstudioux1/

ABPOS 08-18-2010 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rainer. (Post 3582847)
I think you're thinking of something like the Line 6 TonePort: POD Studio (formerly the TonePort):
USB Audio Interface | POD Studio UX1 | Line 6

Yeah, that looks like what I might want. Anybody have any experience with these. There's probably another forum for this, eh? I'll have a looksee.

OK, so I was on the gibson website looking at the epiphones again. The dot has a studio model that is really cheap. That makes me worry, but maybe it's good. Then there is the normal Dot, the Lucille, Casino, Riviera, and Emporer II. And oh yeah, the ES-175 Reissue. They all seem like they'd be in my price range. I don't know how quality is though. Where are these epiphones made? I'm interested in this wilshire too. They have a custom model that is made in Tennesse that is like 4 grand. I'm guessing these other ones are made overseas, which I'm not completey crazy about.

I think the Ricks and Gretsch's are out of my price range for now.

BillSPrestonEsq 08-18-2010 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABPOS (Post 3582892)
Yeah, that looks like what I might want. Anybody have any experience with these. There's probably another forum for this, eh? I'll have a looksee.

OK, so I was on the gibson website looking at the epiphones again. The dot has a studio model that is really cheap. That makes me worry, but maybe it's good. Then there is the normal Dot, the Lucille, Casino, Riviera, and Emporer II. And oh yeah, the ES-175 Reissue. They all seem like they'd be in my price range. I don't know how quality is though. Where are these epiphones made? I'm interested in this wilshire too. They have a custom model that is made in Tennesse that is like 4 grand. I'm guessing these other ones are made overseas, which I'm not completey crazy about.

I think the Ricks and Gretsch's are out of my price range for now.

Gibsons are made in the US, epis are made in the far east. (well, currently, epis used to be us made way back when, but that is the general rule.) I am a big fan of used though... A Gibson semihollow or hollow would probably run you about a grand at the least, probably 1200. Sometimes I see them cheaper.

I wonder if a keyboard amp and a POD XTLive is not what you want amp wise. (you can record into a computer with it and it would give you a pretty decent tone into a keyboard amp.)

ABPOS 08-18-2010 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillSPrestonEsq (Post 3582895)
Gibsons are made in the US, epis are made in the far east. (well, currently, epis used to be us made way back when, but that is the general rule.) I am a big fan of used though... A Gibson semihollow or hollow would probably run you about a grand at the least, probably 1200. Sometimes I see them cheaper.

I wonder if a keyboard amp and a POD XTLive is not what you want amp wise. (you can record into a computer with it and it would give you a pretty decent tone into a keyboard amp.)


Interesting! The pod works with the computer but also as a pre amp for an amp ha? I'm usually kind of a minimalist. In my last band all I played was clean or distortion. I didn't futz with chorus, vibrato or anything like that. Although I can see they have their place. To me, some people overused them and tried to build a song around a certain sound. I never liked that. I wrote songs clean and then just did them up with the band. BUT, tasteful use of effects can go a long way. And something I may have to consider.

Does this pod thing work with an acoustic, or no.

And oh yeah, what would happen if you bought an acoustic amp and played a hollow body through it? Or even a solid electric for that matter?

You guys have been really great helping me with this. It really means a lot to me. More than I could just say. You guys and my wife are the only ones that know that I'm diving back into all this. Well, and a drummer I used to play in church with who live a thousand miles away.

Rainer. 08-18-2010 03:06 PM

POD works with acoustic just fine.

Playing any electric guitar through an acoustic amp works, and there's a particular sort of clean, open sound you get from doing that (a lot of jazz guys like to play their electric guitars through acoustic amps). It doesn't play well with any sort of grit or overdrive, though, unless you run it through an electric guitar amplifier simulator (like the POD) first.

gtrdave 08-18-2010 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABPOS (Post 3582892)
Yeah, that looks like what I might want. Anybody have any experience with these. There's probably another forum for this, eh? I'll have a looksee.

OK, so I was on the gibson website looking at the epiphones again. The dot has a studio model that is really cheap. That makes me worry, but maybe it's good. Then there is the normal Dot, the Lucille, Casino, Riviera, and Emporer II. And oh yeah, the ES-175 Reissue. They all seem like they'd be in my price range. I don't know how quality is though. Where are these epiphones made? I'm interested in this wilshire too. They have a custom model that is made in Tennesse that is like 4 grand. I'm guessing these other ones are made overseas, which I'm not completey crazy about.

I think the Ricks and Gretsch's are out of my price range for now.

Epiphones are made in China and have been for a few years now (with few exceptions). Older Epis were made in Korea (for the most part) and even older models (1970s and prior) were made in America. Others, like the older Elitist electrics, were made in Japan.
Gibsons are all domestic/U.S. made.
Quality on the Epis is ok with some being better than others, the Masterbuilt acoustics being some of the best I've ever played, the Elitist electrics being very good, but none of them can be fairly compared to their American-made counterparts, which, aside from an occasional production flaw, are top notch instruments, imho.

jeepnstein 08-18-2010 03:31 PM

OK, I'll just toss this out there. A really clean electric amp will allow you to play an acoustic and not sound totally bad. By clean I mean something like a Roland JC120 kind of clean. Even that is a compromise. If you had to only have one amp you could do much worse than a Jazz Chorus. This really isn't that big of a deal, however, because if a venue doesn't have a PA to plug into it's not going to be loud enough to worry about amplification anyway.

ABPOS 08-18-2010 07:00 PM

If only we all had tons of dough and could by whatever we want. hehehehe. Well, that's not God's plan for me. But then again, I don't think obsessing over what to get is either. Hehehehe. I haven't reached that point yet and I keep praying that I don't go there. I do feel the more info I have, the more knowledgeable I will be to buy. And I'm learning and relearning so much in a short period of time. It's almost a little mind numbing. Guitars, amps, preamps, etc etc. I am learning though. I do feel like I almost need to simplify it all somehow. But I don't know if that's possible. I guess patience is the key.

I don't like that the epi's are made in China. I wouldn't want to buy one without looking but I don't know if I want to pay american prices. For new at least. Used might be my friend in this case.

BillSPrestonEsq 08-18-2010 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABPOS (Post 3582968)
If only we all had tons of dough and could by whatever we want. hehehehe. Well, that's not God's plan for me. But then again, I don't think obsessing over what to get is either. Hehehehe. I haven't reached that point yet and I keep praying that I don't go there. I do feel the more info I have, the more knowledgeable I will be to buy. And I'm learning and relearning so much in a short period of time. It's almost a little mind numbing. Guitars, amps, preamps, etc etc. I am learning though. I do feel like I almost need to simplify it all somehow. But I don't know if that's possible. I guess patience is the key.

I don't like that the epi's are made in China. I wouldn't want to buy one without looking but I don't know if I want to pay american prices. For new at least. Used might be my friend in this case.

I will be selling an LP studio next week in black for around $500.

ABPOS 08-18-2010 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillSPrestonEsq (Post 3582972)
I will be selling an LP studio next week in black for around $500.

I played on for a while, back in the day, and liked it very much. But I was playing much heavier music. I don't know if it would lend itself to a clean sound very well. The thought did hit me I wonder if that sound would kind of mellow out if you put single coils in it? Sounds like heresay, eh?

gtrdave 08-18-2010 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABPOS (Post 3583014)
I played on for a while, back in the day, and liked it very much. But I was playing much heavier music. I don't know if it would lend itself to a clean sound very well. The thought did hit me I wonder if that sound would kind of mellow out if you put single coils in it? Sounds like heresay, eh?

I've been playing Les Pauls since 1982 and I LOVE their clean sound.
You have to remember that the guitar was designed and built at a time when overdrive and distortion did not exist and the LP was more a jazz and pop guitar than a rock axe.
It wasn't until Jeff Beck and Eric Clapton and Peter Green and Mike Bloomfield started cranking them through overdriven tube amps did the Les Paul become known as a great heavy rock guitar.

I was playing a 1960 Les Paul Special reissue today (w/ a HUGE beefy neck and P90s) through a Vox AC30 and it was pure tone heaven... :angel:

BillSPrestonEsq 08-18-2010 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABPOS (Post 3583014)
I played on for a while, back in the day, and liked it very much. But I was playing much heavier music. I don't know if it would lend itself to a clean sound very well. The thought did hit me I wonder if that sound would kind of mellow out if you put single coils in it? Sounds like heresay, eh?

I wouldn't do true single coils in one... (well other than conversion p90s, I have done that...)

But remember whose name is on the headstock. Seriously, I need to put pickups in it, so if you were interested, I could put whatever type you wanted in there. I was planning on a Seymour Duncan JB in the bridge, and I hadn't decided on the neck pickup yet.


I could put in milder bridge pickups as well.

ABPOS 08-19-2010 08:51 AM

I don't have that much cash yet. I'm going to sell one of my pistols to fund it. I have some of it but need more. Are you a gun guy?

I may have to rethink my attitude towards les pauls. I have to admit, the amp I remember playing it through was a peavy 100 watt solid state head with a 4 x 12 bottom. There may be a reason it was so "strong" sounding. hehehehehe. I got to thinking about what it might sound like through a smaller amp and thought there could be some possibilities. I'm not sure I'm in love with the shape and weight though. Most of my playing is sitting down now. I gotta get a good stool too for at home. But the other thing about a LP is it seems kind of neck heavy and chunky. I do favor the more thin feel of all of the fenders. Maybe I'll have to go play a LP at a store to see what I think.

pooleman0 08-19-2010 09:51 AM

More in keeping with the originial post, I found this past weekend being very frustrated with how every guitar store I went into in New Hampshire (I was on vacation) had poorly set up guitars in them. Example: I grab an American Strat for $1600, I tune it up and play a cord and it is out of tune. So I double check, open low E string is in perfect tune, then I play a G note (3rd fret) and my tuner reads it as half way between A and A flat.

How can you shop or see how a guitar really sounds when you can't even get it tuned? Very frustrating.

Rainer. 08-19-2010 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABPOS (Post 3583177)
I don't have that much cash yet. I'm going to sell one of my pistols to fund it. I have some of it but need more. Are you a gun guy?

I may have to rethink my attitude towards les pauls. I have to admit, the amp I remember playing it through was a peavy 100 watt solid state head with a 4 x 12 bottom. There may be a reason it was so "strong" sounding. hehehehehe. I got to thinking about what it might sound like through a smaller amp and thought there could be some possibilities. I'm not sure I'm in love with the shape and weight though. Most of my playing is sitting down now. I gotta get a good stool too for at home. But the other thing about a LP is it seems kind of neck heavy and chunky. I do favor the more thin feel of all of the fenders. Maybe I'll have to go play a LP at a store to see what I think.

Gibson LPs are generally made in two very different neck profiles, the fatter "50s" neck and the slimmer "60s" neck. You can probably check online to see what era guitars had what profile on the necks.

BillSPrestonEsq 08-19-2010 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rainer. (Post 3583237)
Gibson LPs are generally made in two very different neck profiles, the fatter "50s" neck and the slimmer "60s" neck. You can probably check online to see what era guitars had what profile on the necks.

And I have never met a neck heavy LP. Boat anchor heavy, yes. Neck heavy? That would be SG's and firebirds mostly. And actual 60's necks kind of come in both...

My '64 melody maker is thinner than any '60s neck I have played. My '67 melody maker sg has a '50s neck profile if we were to compare it to the current schema, and my 1951 has somewhere on the slimmer side of middle ground between the two...

ABPOS 08-19-2010 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pooleman0 (Post 3583204)
More in keeping with the originial post, I found this past weekend being very frustrated with how every guitar store I went into in New Hampshire (I was on vacation) had poorly set up guitars in them. Example: I grab an American Strat for $1600, I tune it up and play a cord and it is out of tune. So I double check, open low E string is in perfect tune, then I play a G note (3rd fret) and my tuner reads it as half way between A and A flat.

How can you shop or see how a guitar really sounds when you can't even get it tuned? Very frustrating.

I don't get it either. I find that to be the case everywhere I go. Although with some of these bigger places with lots of people handling them, I can understand. But the first place I went to, there was a guy there very involved and I would think he would've had a better handle on it. He went and tuned one for me and it still wasn't in tune. It may be that they don't really set them up properly until you buy. Because this guy kept telling me they do a set up AFTER you buy it if you're not happy with it. I think that probably means they don't set it up at all. Or maybe some and not others. I don't know. I know also though if I play a guitar with bigger frets, it is hard for me to be completely in tune with every chord I play. Just too much bend. Especially when they have super thin strings on it.

ABPOS 08-19-2010 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillSPrestonEsq (Post 3583239)
And I have never met a neck heavy LP. Boat anchor heavy, yes. Neck heavy? That would be SG's and firebirds mostly. And actual 60's necks kind of come in both...

My '64 melody maker is thinner than any '60s neck I have played. My '67 melody maker sg has a '50s neck profile if we were to compare it to the current schema, and my 1951 has somewhere on the slimmer side of middle ground between the two...

Maybe I'm not remembering correctly. It's one style I haven't played yet recently, so... I guess I have to now. hehehehe

BillSPrestonEsq 08-19-2010 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABPOS (Post 3583262)
I don't get it either. I find that to be the case everywhere I go. Although with some of these bigger places with lots of people handling them, I can understand. But the first place I went to, there was a guy there very involved and I would think he would've had a better handle on it. He went and tuned one for me and it still wasn't in tune. It may be that they don't really set them up properly until you buy. Because this guy kept telling me they do a set up AFTER you buy it if you're not happy with it. I think that probably means they don't set it up at all. Or maybe some and not others. I don't know. I know also though if I play a guitar with bigger frets, it is hard for me to be completely in tune with every chord I play. Just too much bend. Especially when they have super thin strings on it.

A lot of stores just set up the higher end guitars so you feel they are that much better. Also, it is next to impossible to keep floor guitars tuned up. (people screw the intonation adjustment screws and mess them up horribly.)

One thing about your technique. You do want to work on pressing softer. Pressing excessively hard leads to potential damage in your hand and wrist. Personally I want to be the ornery old cuss still playing at 95 so I try to really keep from doing anything that might be linked with carpal tunnel syndrome or anything.

pooleman0 08-19-2010 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillSPrestonEsq (Post 3583268)
A lot of stores just set up the higher end guitars so you feel they are that much better. Also, it is next to impossible to keep floor guitars tuned up. (people screw the intonation adjustment screws and mess them up horribly.)


OK. But a $1600 guitar should be set up properly. Also, I went only into smaller size stores that did not have a high volume of customers coming in and out. So I would think that have accurately setup guitars would be necessary to ensure you are not losing customers due to instruments sounding like crap.

ABPOS 08-19-2010 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillSPrestonEsq (Post 3583268)
A lot of stores just set up the higher end guitars so you feel they are that much better. Also, it is next to impossible to keep floor guitars tuned up. (people screw the intonation adjustment screws and mess them up horribly.)

One thing about your technique. You do want to work on pressing softer. Pressing excessively hard leads to potential damage in your hand and wrist. Personally I want to be the ornery old cuss still playing at 95 so I try to really keep from doing anything that might be linked with carpal tunnel syndrome or anything.

I hear you. I think it's because I'm used to playing my acoustic, which takes more pressure. I just assumed it was because the strings are fatter. Maybe it's not that great of a guitar. It's just an Ibanez AE300. I don't think I can go any lower with the action though. Point is taken though. It's been a long time since I've played electric much, so, it's going to take some practice to be suave and debonnier again. However you spell it. Which I never was, but maybe in my old age I'll get a little more refined. hehehehe

jeepnstein 08-20-2010 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABPOS (Post 3583361)
I hear you. I think it's because I'm used to playing my acoustic, which takes more pressure. I just assumed it was because the strings are fatter. Maybe it's not that great of a guitar. It's just an Ibanez AE300. I don't think I can go any lower with the action though. Point is taken though. It's been a long time since I've played electric much, so, it's going to take some practice to be suave and debonnier again. However you spell it. Which I never was, but maybe in my old age I'll get a little more refined. hehehehe

I chose another route with my electric. I went with a Tele and keep it strung with .11's. Since I'm an acoustic player this is pretty comfortable and it sounds pretty good. I had problems playing in tune until I made the switch to the heavier strings and did a setup. Heavy strings don't present a problem for chicken picken.

ABPOS 08-20-2010 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeepnstein (Post 3583504)
I chose another route with my electric. I went with a Tele and keep it strung with .11's. Since I'm an acoustic player this is pretty comfortable and it sounds pretty good. I had problems playing in tune until I made the switch to the heavier strings and did a setup. Heavy strings don't present a problem for chicken picken.

I agree. When my Mom bought a rummage sale fender starcaster, I put .11's on there because I thought it might make it stay in tune better. Well, I found out I really like that size for strumming and I feel that it does help with not bending too much. I don't press as hard as the acoustic of course, so I'm not a complete hack, ehehehehe. I CAN feel the difference, but I'm sure no light touch slow hands. But, it is something I need to have a little bit more refinement in probably, so Bill's advice is taken well.

How does your Tele sound with .11's? Does it give at a warmer sound? Do you have a standard set up tele?


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