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-   -   Myth: Best equipment = best tone (http://www.christianguitar.org/forums/t132303/)

DaGeek 07-28-2006 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Building429_Boy (Post 2524364)
Well.. Some people think this tone is awesome. (most people who are into metal a lot would think that) I personally can't stand it.

Ewwwww, nasty tone...


I agree with the earlier post by ApparentlyNothing, though. Bad is bad, no matter how much you like it. If it works for you, it works for you, but quality doesn't change because of personal opinion. Personal opinion only makes it more bearable.

gtrdave 07-28-2006 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApparentlyNothing (Post 2524360)
Can I be the first to dispell this myth as well? To a degree, it is subjective. But just like art, there is much more objective things that separate good from bad. A bad photo is a bad photo, no matter how much you say you like it. And bad tone is bad tone no matter how much anyone says it's not. There are many facits of good tone that are subjective, such as one liking darker tone from an Orange, or brighter tone from an AC30, or heavy distortion from a Mesa, or clean tone from a Fender. But bad tone is bad, no question.

This is an untrue generalization and one that assumes that there is some common rule and/or a person who is deemed "judge" for good and bad tone.

What you might hear and claim to be "bad", someone else may hear and say it's "good".
A lot of Neil Young's guitar solo work, as badly as I think it's performed, usually has what I would consider a very bad tone.
Slash has not yet recorded anything that I would consider good tone and I think he's tied for first place with Neil Young for being able to make a Gibson Les Paul sound as bad as it ever could.
Many people disagree with me.

And I right to be the judge of tone?
Are they?
Is anyone?

KATMAN 07-28-2006 08:16 PM

Good point,Dave. I've said it a hundred times,I'd rather hear a good player playing bad gear than a bad player playing good gear. None of us can really judge another players tone.I mean we can,but who's to say we're right? The best tone I ever heard was Roy Bucahanon. He used a stock Tele and a Fender tube amp.But to each his own.

ApparentlyNothing 07-28-2006 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Building429_Boy (Post 2524364)
Well.. Some people think this tone is awesome. (most people who are into metal a lot would think that) I personally can't stand it.

But that tone is definitional to the metal genre. It wasn't recorded in the best way, but as far as I can tell, it's pretty decent metal tone. The subjectivity of whether you like it or not is valid, but the objectivity of it being decent metal tone is as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtrdave (Post 2524390)
This is an untrue generalization and one that assumes that there is some common rule and/or a person who is deemed "judge" for good and bad tone.

What you might hear and claim to be "bad", someone else may hear and say it's "good".
A lot of Neil Young's guitar solo work, as badly as I think it's performed, usually has what I would consider a very bad tone.
Slash has not yet recorded anything that I would consider good tone and I think he's tied for first place with Neil Young for being able to make a Gibson Les Paul sound as bad as it ever could.
Many people disagree with me.

And I right to be the judge of tone?
Are they?
Is anyone?

My point was that it's not all gray area. There's plenty of gray area in the middle, but there's also plenty of black and white on the ends.

What5647 07-28-2006 09:25 PM

in the case of that video, i'll say tone is in the fingers. he's got good gear, but it's not set up as i would do it, nor is his palying anything spectacular.

EDIT: and it was an all-right metal tone, not terrible, yet not great either.

bobthecockroach 07-28-2006 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Visirale (Post 2522822)
I don't care if you're Yngvie Malmsteem. If you're playing a particle board strat copy with 5 dollar chinese pickups through an amp with blown preamp tubes, you're gonna sound crappy no mater what you do.

Technique makes a lot of it. But there is no way I'm gonna get "my sound" unless I use my Stingray and Mesa head. The cabs aren't quite as important, but still a factor. Characteristic tones, especially good characteristic tones come from certain gear... I think it is a large factor. It is a huge fallacy to say "It's all in the fingers."

Truth.

Mattlock 07-28-2006 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApparentlyNothing (Post 2524360)
Can I be the first to dispell this myth as well? To a degree, it is subjective. But just like art, there is much more objective things that separate good from bad. A bad photo is a bad photo, no matter how much you say you like it. And bad tone is bad tone no matter how much anyone says it's not. There are many facits of good tone that are subjective, such as one liking darker tone from an Orange, or brighter tone from an AC30, or heavy distortion from a Mesa, or clean tone from a Fender. But bad tone is bad, no question.

And we have a winner!

Also, to OP mentioned in his post that a MAJORITY of tone is in the fingers. Or something to that extent. Not all, but a part.

Jenacen 07-29-2006 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Building429_Boy (Post 2524364)
Well.. Some people think this tone is awesome. (most people who are into metal a lot would think that) I personally can't stand it.

Was that even a song?

That's nothing compared to one of my friend's tones. High treble, too much gain, eek!

Rainer. 07-29-2006 09:50 AM

Who defined "good tone" anyway?

Tones have uses, there are no good or bad tones. There is only using tones in bad taste, which is subjective, but no tone is inherently bad.

For example, if I were to roll off the tone control on my neck pickup, and use it with some heavy distortion to play a heavy riff, no doubt it would sound pretty muddy and horrible, but I could take that sound and use it in a techno song for some pseudo-synth sounds, and it would sound pretty cool. Many "bad tones" have great uses in more experimental and avant-garde styles of playing. Many "good tones" would sound horrible when pulled out of musical context.

However with bad technique, things are going to sound bad no matter what tone you use, so technique is apparently more important than the tone used in overall sound.

jamforchrist123 07-29-2006 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rainer. (Post 2524753)
For example, if I were to roll off the tone control on my neck pickup, and use it with some heavy distortion to play a heavy riff, no doubt it would sound pretty muddy and horrible, but I could take that sound and use it in a techno song for some pseudo-synth sounds, and it would sound pretty cool.


That is true. In this one song I wrote, I use my neck p90 with tone rolled all the way down, through my eq with scooped mids, into my J&H with a little bit of overdrive, into my chorus with everything dimed, and into my amp with high 0, mid 12, and bass 0. If used anywhere else it would sound incredibly bad, but in this case it works perfectly. If I was to use my normal low overdrive tone it would not work at all.

ApparentlyNothing 07-29-2006 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rainer. (Post 2524753)
Who defined "good tone" anyway?

Tones have uses, there are no good or bad tones. There is only using tones in bad taste, which is subjective, but no tone is inherently bad.

For example, if I were to roll off the tone control on my neck pickup, and use it with some heavy distortion to play a heavy riff, no doubt it would sound pretty muddy and horrible, but I could take that sound and use it in a techno song for some pseudo-synth sounds, and it would sound pretty cool. Many "bad tones" have great uses in more experimental and avant-garde styles of playing. Many "good tones" would sound horrible when pulled out of musical context.

However with bad technique, things are going to sound bad no matter what tone you use, so technique is apparently more important than the tone used in overall sound.

You make a good point. It's all about context.

Captain Dan 07-29-2006 06:42 PM

Dude-do they make finger transplants?? But seriously-your technique is what makes the guitar sing-the thing doesn't play on its own it takes talent no matter if it was made by some dude named paul or some dude named taylor-

Demon_Hunter 07-30-2006 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Dan (Post 2525106)
Dude-do they make finger transplants?? But seriously-your technique is what makes the guitar sing-the thing doesn't play on its own it takes talent no matter if it was made by some dude named paul or some dude named taylor-




:whoa:

Dude, technique is generally whats referred to as "The Fingers". And your point seems confused, or was there actually even a point to that post?

_____________________________________________________________

thesteve 07-30-2006 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by demon_hunter (Post 2525496)
:whoa:

Dude, technique is generally whats referred to as "The Fingers". And your point seems confused, or was there actually even a point to that post?

_____________________________________________________________

his post made sense to me...

Demon_Hunter 07-30-2006 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thesteve (Post 2525520)
his post made sense to me...



It didnt seem to go anywhere.
And it folded back in on itself.


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