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-   -   Myth: Best equipment = best tone (http://www.christianguitar.org/forums/t132303/)

xevan 07-27-2006 08:22 AM

hmm and I wasnt joking btw what I sorta of meant is how do you know if you have good technique or bad technique?

gtrdave 07-27-2006 08:39 AM

The easy answer would be to listen to a few professional or semi-pro guitarists and then listen to yourself and compare the two but the world of professional guitarists is pretty diverse so you'd have to know what it is that you're listening for.

Case in point: Kurt Cobain had some horrid technique and was on the low end of the musical diversity scale but he was a professional guitarist none the less.
On the other end, Steve Morse has what I think is amazing technique and also a very diverse musical repitoire from which to pull. He, too, is a pro.
And a guy like Eric Clapton falls somewhere in the middle having good technique and a fairly common musical vocabulary.

I posted a couple examples in a reply in this thread regarding different levels of progression of simple lead playing.
Maybe give it a listen and see if it helps answer your question and hopefully inspires you on.

Visirale 07-27-2006 08:49 AM

I don't care if you're Yngvie Malmsteem. If you're playing a particle board strat copy with 5 dollar chinese pickups through an amp with blown preamp tubes, you're gonna sound crappy no mater what you do.

Technique makes a lot of it. But there is no way I'm gonna get "my sound" unless I use my Stingray and Mesa head. The cabs aren't quite as important, but still a factor. Characteristic tones, especially good characteristic tones come from certain gear... I think it is a large factor. It is a huge fallacy to say "It's all in the fingers."

Truth? 07-27-2006 08:51 AM

It all comes down to is you can play clear (barring, agility on changing and such). If you're able to do that it dosent matter what you play on you'll sound good. I like playing on a 60 dollar nylon 1/2 size guitar. I think it sounds great. Also you're strings help...

Rainer. 07-27-2006 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtrdave (Post 2522806)
Kurt Cobain had some horrid technique and was on the low end of the musical diversity scale but he was a professional guitarist none the less.

I think he counts as good-enough-technique-to-sound-good.

It's like you'd be hard pressed to hear a simple strummed G, and be able to tell whether the player in question had been playing for 5 years or 50 years.

Concerning Ted's comment:
It comes to a point. There is a distinct difference between gear that's not very good, and gear that just doesn't work. No one can say that a guitar with 2 inch action is playable, or an amp with blown tubes will sound good with a decent player. That stuff just doesn't operate like a guitar should. There is a threshold where you just can't get a good sound no matterhow you try, and that's bascially the threshold of brokenness.

However in the current world, that hardly applies to new guitars anymore. I'm going to point out what's possibly the cheapest stuff on the market: The First Acts at Wal-Mart. A good guitarist can make those sound good.

Current manufacturing techniques rarely spit out something that can't work. Even cheap guitars usually work.

And I in fact play a particle-board guitar with cheap Chinese (actually one is mexican, the other is indonesian, and the last one is chinese...) pickups. You can hear it here...
http://www.christianguitar.org/forum...d.php?t=130494

thomaspg70 07-27-2006 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rainer. (Post 2522597)
My hollowbody does metal awesomely. I use 12s on it, it downtunes like none of my other guitars can.

I can make any of my guitars sound metal if I want. I can make any of them sound folky, I can make any of them sound bluesy. It's my technique that makes 'em sound like that, not any inherent property of the guitar.

I mean they don't get the best tone for metal as a solid body does. Sure they can do metal but they don't sound best.

Rainer. 07-27-2006 10:58 AM

"Best" is incredibly subjective. Telecasters wouldn't generally strike you as "the best" for punk and hardcore either, but Teles have seriously become the next big guitar in those musical styles.

And then there's Ted Nugent...

And also on a side note, on Thrice's video for "Image Of The Invisible", they're pretty clearly playing a Telecaster and a hollowbody of some sort...

RipVanWinkle 07-27-2006 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Visirale (Post 2522822)
Technique makes a lot of it. But there is no way I'm gonna get "my sound" unless I use my Stingray and Mesa head.

Of course...thats the bass, right?

Jenacen 07-27-2006 12:02 PM

I play with good, solid technique and I notice a difference between two instruments. I brought in my Washburn for praise and worship and they couldn't get it to sound good. I brought in my Ibanez Prestige and it just naturally sounded better. I also recently modified my Ibanez by lowering the action, and on certain pickups the thing sounds like I'm strumming an acoustic (I heightened my pickups a litte, too). It's odd to play 5th string root power chords because the G string has been buzzy before, and it sounds even worse now. The effect may be good, but the chord just sounds odd because of the quality of the guitar. Really, it's half and half. If you can't hit the note so that it plays cleanly, it's nothing to do with your hardware. But if you have perfect technique but something sounds bad, it's not you so it must be your hardware.

I'd say this is one of those cases where it's not directly one or the other. I'd say the myths are "It's all in the fingers" and "it's all in the equipment."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rainer. (Post 2522998)
"Best" is incredibly subjective. Telecasters wouldn't generally strike you as "the best" for punk and hardcore either, but Teles have seriously become the next big guitar in those musical styles.

Yeah, one time I was at my local guitar store and one of the employees was playing some metal riff on a Fender and I said, "You got that sound out of a Fender??" I've never really associated the name Fender with anything other than Clapton or the blues.

thesteve 07-27-2006 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RipVanWinkle (Post 2523035)
Of course...thats the bass, right?

indeed he's referring to bass, but the principles are widely the same.

Mattlock 07-28-2006 10:04 AM

It's not all in the fingers. Yes, a fair amount is in the fingers, but you also need decent gear.

I played my girlfriend's Starcaster by Fender (the Walmart one) and could not get a good sound out of it. Now, I can get a good sound out of my newly bought Fender MIM Strat. And an even better sound out of my Uncles MIA Strat.

Also, a proper set-up is definately a big factor. I've picked up Gibsons, Fenders, ect. at Guitar Center that had crappy intonation, poor action, ect. Couldn't get a good sound out of those. Had you given me a no-name Chinese guitar that was properly set-up, I would have been better off.

gtrdave 07-28-2006 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattlock (Post 2523905)
It's not all in the fingers. Yes, a fair amount is in the fingers, but you also need decent gear.

I played my girlfriend's Starcaster by Fender (the Walmart one) and could not get a good sound out of it. Now, I can get a good sound out of my newly bought Fender MIM Strat. And an even better sound out of my Uncles MIA Strat.

Also, a proper set-up is definately a big factor. I've picked up Gibsons, Fenders, ect. at Guitar Center that had crappy intonation, poor action, ect. Couldn't get a good sound out of those. Had you given me a no-name Chinese guitar that was properly set-up, I would have been better off.

I hear you.
I think that the key word is "best". As others have already said, "best" is a very subjective term and, therefore, there is no "best" gear.
There's gear that works for a particular person's purposes and there's gear that does not work for those or any purposes (other than as firewood, doorstop, boat anchor or oar, paperweight, etc...).

Demon_Hunter 07-28-2006 05:15 PM

Good and bad tone are subjective. Its all in the ear of the beholder afterall.;)

ApparentlyNothing 07-28-2006 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by demon_hunter (Post 2524316)
Good and bad tone are subjective. Its all in the ear of the beholder afterall.;)

Can I be the first to dispell this myth as well? To a degree, it is subjective. But just like art, there is much more objective things that separate good from bad. A bad photo is a bad photo, no matter how much you say you like it. And bad tone is bad tone no matter how much anyone says it's not. There are many facits of good tone that are subjective, such as one liking darker tone from an Orange, or brighter tone from an AC30, or heavy distortion from a Mesa, or clean tone from a Fender. But bad tone is bad, no question.

Ryan Freeland 07-28-2006 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApparentlyNothing (Post 2524360)
Can I be the first to dispell this myth as well? To a degree, it is subjective. But just like art, there is much more objective things that separate good from bad. A bad photo is a bad photo, no matter how much you say you like it. And bad tone is bad tone no matter how much anyone says it's not. There are many facits of good tone that are subjective, such as one liking darker tone from an Orange, or brighter tone from an AC30, or heavy distortion from a Mesa, or clean tone from a Fender. But bad tone is bad, no question.

Well.. Some people think this tone is awesome. (most people who are into metal a lot would think that) I personally can't stand it.


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