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-   -   Sola Christos? (http://www.christianguitar.org/forums/t112102/)

Abbadon 10-07-2005 09:43 PM

Sola Christos?
 
This was an idea from another forum I'm on, and I like it.

(Originally written by Rev. Smith on ChristianForums.com):
Quote:

The Protestants have their solas - sola scriptura, sola filde, sola grace and so on. The further I get into the tensions in the New Testament, the thesis length dissertations needed to reconcile Paul with Jesus, James and Peter and the weight we all carry of the complexity of a religion whose Master summed it up with : Love God, Love your neighbor, keep the commandments I have come to wonder, is there any value in this complexity.

All religions face this: The teachings of Budda fit on one page, yet each sect has thousands of pages of documents explaining the eight-fold path. Sharia Law is MUCH longer than the Koran. The teachings of Jesus of Nazareth are dwarfed by the rest of the canon, and positivly buried under the weight of the confessions, dogmas and catachisms.

Is it time for us to reclaims simplicity? Should we promote one mora sola, Sola Christos - a Christianity based solely on the teachings of Jesus, The Christ?
I think that it's not a bad idea. I've seen the argument that "Oh, well, how would you know about Jesus if it weren't for the scriptures?", and "What's the point if you don't have faith, cause that's how you're saved.", and so on, but really, the idea would be the scriptures are a very important starting point and reference point, and it's faith in Christ is what we're talking about.

onelasttime 10-07-2005 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abbadon
This was an idea from another forum I'm on, and I like it.

(Originally written by Rev. Smith on ChristianForums.com):


I think that it's not a bad idea. I've seen the argument that "Oh, well, how would you know about Jesus if it weren't for the scriptures?", and "What's the point if you don't have faith, cause that's how you're saved.", and so on, but really, the idea would be the scriptures are a very important starting point and reference point, and it's faith in Christ is what we're talking about.

The assumption of course being that teachings not directly out of Christ's mouth are not Christo-centirc.

Abbadon 10-07-2005 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onelasttime
The assumption of course being that teachings not directly out of Christ's mouth are not Christo-centirc.

Well, not that, but we should read those through what Christ says, not in light of (which is a problem some places).

onelasttime 10-07-2005 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abbadon
Well, not that, but we should read those through what Christ says, not in light of (which is a problem some places).

Are Christ's words somehow "more" inspired than the rest of scripture? Please explain how if so.

Abbadon 10-07-2005 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onelasttime
Are Christ's words somehow "more" inspired than the rest of scripture? Please explain how if so.

Well, scripture was inspired by God, not written by God, Christ is God, so His teachings are more directly to the issues.

onelasttime 10-07-2005 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abbadon
Well, scripture was inspired by God, not written by God, Christ is God, so His teachings are more directly to the issues.

Would you deny that scripture is "God-breathed"?

Abbadon 10-07-2005 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onelasttime
Would you deny that scripture is "God-breathed"?

I believe that it was inspired by God, but written by humans (though I don't speak for anyone else that does or wishes to go with the Sola Christos idea). I don't think that the Bible is comparable to what the Qabbalists believe about Sefer Yetsirah, or the Muslims about the Quran; that God wrote it word for word, and handed it to us and that is was unaltered. If that had been the case, the amount of people that argue against the Bible would be equal to those that argue against "love thy neighbor".

Would you deny that it's only through Christ, and not doctrine and dogma, that we are saved?

onelasttime 10-07-2005 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abbadon
I believe that it was inspired by God, but written by humans (though I don't speak for anyone else that does or wishes to go with the Sola Christos idea). I don't think that the Bible is comparable to what the Qabbalists believe about Sefer Yetsirah, or the Muslims about the Quran; that God wrote it word for word, and handed it to us and that is was unaltered. If that had been the case, the amount of people that argue against the Bible would be equal to those that argue against "love thy neighbor".

I'm sorry, but this doesn't answer the question.

Quote:

Would you deny that it's only through Christ, and not doctrine and dogma, that we are saved?
Of course.

Abbadon 10-07-2005 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onelasttime
I'm sorry, but this doesn't answer the question.

It does, I just didn't give it a simple "yes" or "no" that could be misconstrued (one learn to be paranoid with the sites I go to).

onelasttime 10-07-2005 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abbadon
It does, I just didn't give it a simple "yes" or "no" that could be misconstrued (one learn to be paranoid with the sites I go to).

It doesn't. I've seen people refer to the "inspiration" of scripture and use to mean anything from a a strong bleief in scriptural innerency to only a "basic" (for lack of better term) belief in inspiration, one that affirmed that the Bible did indeed have error.

My question is regarding the Greek word "theopnuestos" in 1 Timothy 3:16, which literally means "God-breathed." For more see here.

Abbadon 10-07-2005 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onelasttime
It doesn't. I've seen people refer to the "inspiration" of scripture and use to mean anything from a a strong bleief in scriptural innerency to only a "basic" (for lack of better term) belief in inspiration, one that affirmed that the Bible did indeed have error.

My question is regarding the Greek word "theopnuestos" in 1 Timothy 3:16, which literally means "God-breathed." For more see here.

I believe that God's message was perfect, but that humans can screw it up just as we have screwed ourselves up. If the first copy was perfect, further copies could have been copied imperfectly, and translations could be imperfect. But I believe that, it's not the letter that matters, it's the message.

If I were to go with the idea that all scripture is God breathed, then I'd be at a conflict. The apocrapha is considered by some scripture, but by others it isn't. The book of Enoch is considered by some scripture, and others it isn't.

What does it hurt our faith as Christians to admit that there may be errors in the Bible? Nothing, if your faith is in God and not in the Bible as an idol.

Unfortunatly, it's 1:14 where I am, so I must leave now.

onelasttime 10-07-2005 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abbadon
I believe that God's message was perfect, but that humans can screw it up just as we have screwed ourselves up. If the first copy was perfect, further copies could have been copied imperfectly, and translations could be imperfect. But I believe that, it's not the letter that matters, it's the message.

Are you saying that God's revelation of scripture was innerrent, and then was "screwed up" by man when recording it, or that the original manuscripts were innerent and then "screwed up" when being transmitted to other manuscripts?

Quote:

If I were to go with the idea that all scripture is God breathed, then I'd be at a conflict. The apocrapha is considered by some scripture, but by others it isn't. The book of Enoch is considered by some scripture, and others it isn't.
I don't understand your logic here - can we not say that scripture is God-breathed because there is dissent on what the extent of scripture is?

Quote:

What does it hurt our faith as Christians to admit that there may be errors in the Bible? Nothing, if your faith is in God and not in the Bible as an idol.
For some, the belief that the scriptures are innerrent and/or infallible is essential to the Christian faith.

Cadence 10-08-2005 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abbadon
I believe that God's message was perfect, but that humans can screw it up just as we have screwed ourselves up.

I believe they can too. But did they? You need proof for that.

I don't think God would give a message that was perfect and then let it be corrupted. How else would we know about God? Jesus? Salvation through faith alone? Sin nature?

I'd like to know how you know God's view on these things if you don't trust all of what the Bible says.

Cadence 10-08-2005 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abbadon

What does it hurt our faith as Christians to admit that there may be errors in the Bible? Nothing, if your faith is in God and not in the Bible as an idol.

Nothing....but first you need to show where there are errors and why. I'm not talking about numbers or a few words...I'm talking about messages.

The Word of God is not an idol. Your treading on heresy here.

Furthermore...how do you even have a faith in God? Where did you learn of this God? And where did you learn that we are to have faith in Him? Or that we're not supposed to worship idols?

goldenchild 10-08-2005 02:10 AM

I'm all for Sola Christus in the sense that we believe His word. I just happen to believe that Scripture(and Tradition - always gotta throw that monkey wrench in :D) are Christ's words to us.


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