christian or Not?

[Unregistered]

Lifehouse--christian music or not? want to hear you opinions!

[Ali4God]

Well... there was already a thread on this below, and we closed it because people's values were being messed with... I will leave this open for the time being, but if it starts heading in the direction that the previous thread did, I will close it.

As far as I know, two people from Lifehouse are Christians and I am not sure about the other. They have said that they do not want to be classified as a "christian band", but they also say that every song is for Him.
*Alison*

[Brent]

Well said Alison. I'll be watching this one as well, since the last one was started by an 'Unregistered' with suspiciously the same question almost... They have said themselves that they are Christians (except for the drummer), so I don't see what's to discuss really. If you're talking about the music, then that's a different story.

Brent

[Unregistered]

i was talking about the music--not there personal committments. I understand that some of the have confessed to be chrisitans. I am discussing this from a musical point of view Not a person point of view. Would you classify their music (lyrics, etc) to be of chrisitian taste?


Thats all I was asking!

[Unregistered]

and the only reason I posted as UNREGISTERED is b/c I have not joined yet . . . . There are lots of us out there

[barberjo]

Listen to "Breathing" - it's about the most Christian song I know.


John

[Brent]

Originally posted by Unregistered
and the only reason I posted as UNREGISTERED is b/c I have not joined yet . . . . There are lots of us out there Just a helpful hint...when you post something you CAN enter a username that's not in use by someone already. Just leave the password blank and it will show you as "Joe User: Guest" instead of just Unregistered. That way you don't have to enter any other information about yourself and it also helps those of us reading the boards identify one "Unregistered" from the other. :D

Brent

[Brent]

Now to answer the question...

I think that whether or not you're trying to be something (like a "Christian band" or a "rock band") that your values and beliefs are always going to show through in what you do. Lifehouse is not a so-called "Christian band" because they've said so, but I think that Wade's writing shows Christian themes and values at times because he's a Christian himself. No matter how hard you try to be or not to be one thing, it's always going to show through.

Brent

[MRGREEN23]

Wouldn't classify their music as "Christian".



Mr. Green....23

[barberjo]

Originally posted by MRGREEN23
Wouldn't classify their music as "Christian".





Why not?


John

[Brent]

Yeah, why not? C'mon MRGREEN...you always back your statements up, why stop now? Also, to clear up what I said in my last post a bit....I don't think Lifehouse makes Christian music, but I think that the beliefs of Wade show through in his lyrics a bit.

Brent

[MRGREEN23]

I don't have any info on them, so I can't ellaborate. Just don't feel "good" when I hear anything they do (which isn't much)...


Green

[guitarman]

My band is made up of Christians, but we don't sing "Christian" songs. The songs we write are simply from our hearts. If some reference to Christ or Spiritual matters comes up, then so be it :). But most of our songs are about our struggles, weaknesses, problems. The songs I write typically come as an emotional release. If I'm stressed, the song is tense. If I'm happy, the song is happy :). If I'm mad, then the song is mad. But each one of us lives Christian lives and we glorify God the best we can.

Make sense?

Aaron

[MRGREEN23]

Ahhhh, Brent, Why'd you have to go and do that??!!!!!!

I truly have only heard one song from Lifehouse, and I read one article about them, and it seems "wishy-washy" to me....

But, I can't go into any detail, becuase you have caught me with my "preverbial pants down".... I have no basis for my statement.....


Go ahead, scron. Mock. Let it be known throughout the CGR world.......

In fact, let's start a post about it!!!!!

Just kidding about all this, of course.....

Mr. Green....23

[Scott]

lol. its embarassing when you get caught like that isnt it?

[Brent]

Good points Aaron. Exactly what I was getting at, really. There are notable differences between a "Christian band" and a "Band of Christians".

Brent

[Scott]

definitely, and the more bands who happen to be christians, the better, instead of this whole "christian music" genre thing thats going on.

[barberjo]

MRGREEN,

It's ok, we love you anyway!!!

(Plus, we all know we do the same thing sometimes)



John

[MRGREEN23]

Boo hoo, I hate when I don't have anything to say............


Mr. Green....23

[guitarman]

The whole idea of having a "Christian music" genre seems to miss the idea of being in the world but not of it. I don't disagree with having a Christian genre at all :), but for me, I would rather be heavily involved in the secular world. I guess my vision is to influence the music industry rather than the listeners. Ya know?

Just some thoughts :).


Aaron

[Scott]

also, more people are gonna buy an album by a band who happen to be christians, so you can get morally upright (for a lack of a better phrase springing to mind) lyrics across, and affect the industry. everyone's a winner! well, except the Christian music industry, which on second thoughts isnt as bad as i made out at first.

[Ali4God]

Aww.... GIANT HUG FOR MRGREEN! Hehehe... anywho- back to the issue at hand...

I truly appreciate having 'bands of Christians' floating around in the seculaer scene. Among all of these secular bands that are talking about things like sex and drugs, you have bands like Lifehouse, Creed, and POD that are sticking to a positive message, without foul language or anything like that. It may not be screaming out about Jesus and His love (don't get me wrong- I love that kind of music; all but one of the songs I've written thus far have been blatently Christian), but it is still enforcing the idea of His peace. Just my $.02
*Alison*

[timberwolf_s]

guitarman- what's the name of your band? do you have any mp3's? i would love to hear some :) thanks

[Playn4God]

Originally posted by Ali4God
you have bands like Lifehouse, Creed, and POD that are sticking to a positive message

I thought POD was Christian, they are sold in Christian bookstores, but I could be wrong

[Brent]

Originally posted by Playn4God
I thought POD was Christian, they are sold in Christian bookstores, but I could be wrong Yes, but the sentence started with "Among all these secular bands you have...." Didn't really say that POD wasn't Christian, just that they were out among the secular bands....you know, in the world and not of it?

Brent

[Ali4God]

Thats exactly it Brent, thanks!
*Alison*

[Electricgrandpa]

Well... Yes, I am glad that we have both sections of bands... Christian bands for christians, and christians in the secular market... but I think bands like Creed and Lifehouse should be a bit more open with their christianity, like POD. It almost seems like they are trying to hide their beliefs, because they don't always directly sing about them, and it doesn't seem to be the focus of their interviews like it is with POD...

Last time I checked the FAQ on Creed's website, they all believe different things, but the main thing they agree on is that there is one God, or something like that... I don't know about Lifehouse... But it seems to me like these bands are still trying to be popular, more than actually telling people about God. I'm gonna guess that POD has planted more seeds and converted more people than Creed and Lifehouse combined.

-EG

[Jakubiakski]

I beleive christian bands are groups of christians who use thier music to worship God and/or bring teh gosple to people. In my opinion POD does this very well.

[Brent]

Originally posted by Electricgrandpa
Last time I checked the FAQ on Creed's website, they all believe different things, but the main thing they agree on is that there is one God, or something like that...Creed is not a Christian band...that's been discussed in other threads. Nor do I believe they are a "band of Christians" either. Scott Stapp has openly denied being a Christian. He and the rest of the band can believe that 'there is one God' all they want to, but that doesn't make them Christians.

Brent

[Ali4God]

I watched one of those "Behind the Music" things on Creed... Scott does not want to be classifyed as a 'Christian'. His father was a very hardcore Christian, and some of the things he did turned Scott away from the faith. He said he would rather be classifyed as "spiritual". So interpret it as you may...
*Alison*

[stinkins]

Lifehouse...P.O.D...Creed...where do they fall??

The answer is simple...at least to me. I work for a college radio station that plays Christian music. The current way we've decided to cut off with bands like Lifehouse, P.O.D., and Creed is based on whether other Christian stations and charts have them present.

Currently, Lifehouse has been on in with Hanging by a Moment, Sick Cycle Carousel, and now Breathing.

P.O.D. was recently #1 for 6 weeks on the CCM Update Rock charts with Alive. The CCM Update is the industry standard for charts. They are now climbing the charts with Youth of the Nation.

Creed has never cracked the charts, though My Sacrifice is beginning to get some airplay on Christian stations. Their status is changing as we speak.

I hope that offers some insight into my perspective on it. I do not believe that it is the duty of the band to label themselves as Christian or not, it is all based on the perception of the listener. Obviously, they all write Christian lyrics, but of course many lyrics from other bands can be taken as Christian. What the bands say does not matter...it is what the listeners say.

[Electricgrandpa]

sorry brent, yeah, i was basically trying to imply that creed isn't really christian, ie. i agree.

no caps, sweet.

-eg

[lovegod&guitar]

I don't think it is up to me to decide if they are Christian or not. Even so, I take that sort of meaning from most of their work. Not necessarily the most original stuff musically, but at least they do it well. Their hearts are their business, and we can see their hearts only through their music because not all of us know them personally. Hence, well, you know what I'm saying. Or not, doesn't make much difference. I think they are, or at least have the influence.

[Brent]

Originally posted by lovegod&guitar
I don't think it is up to me to decide if they are Christian or not. Even so, I take that sort of meaning from most of their work. Not necessarily the most original stuff musically, but at least they do it well. Their hearts are their business, and we can see their hearts only through their music because not all of us know them personally. Hence, well, you know what I'm saying. Or not, doesn't make much difference. I think they are, or at least have the influence. Yes, this is true, but we can also "see their hearts" by what they tell us, and as for Creed, they've told us that they are not Christians. No one is judging, just going by what the people themselves have said. I wholeheartedly agree that their true salvation is between only them and God, but our earthly minds can only go with what they have said personally.

As for Stinkins' comments: I suppose that's a fairly good way to determine what gets airplay and what does not on the station. However, the charts are made up of what the most popular songs are on the radio (for the most part) and what's on the radio is what's requested most by the listeners....the same listener's who have their own opinions on whether or not a band is "Christian". So the presence of a song or artist on the charts doesn't really prove anything but the confusion of radio listeners. You never said it *did* prove anything, though, but that it's just you station's "standard", and that's a fairly good one I guess.

Brent

[SnapCase]

Jesus told us that we would know his followers by their fruits. So there is absolutly nothing wrong with fruit inspection.

[Fuzz]

Hey ya'll, I found this site on Lifehouse when I was trying to find out if they were Christian, and alot of the songs that are seemingly spiritual (like Sick Cycle Carousel) Jason wrote to his g/f. Hanging by a Moment to i think...-Adam

[Strider]

Originally posted by SnapCase
Jesus told us that we would know his followers by their fruits. So there is absolutly nothing wrong with fruit inspection.

*drooling*...fruit...yess...precious..gollum

[Enobmurt]

What is the point of being a band of Christians instead of a Christian band? just curious...

[Scott]

smeegol

[MRGREEN23]

What????????????????/

[Scott]

LOTR reference. strider started it, that whole precious gollum thing. blame him. I may have misspelled it though, so someone is bound to correct me.

[MRGREEN23]

You are one wierd cookie!!!

Green

[guitarman]

Originally posted by SnapCase
Jesus told us that we would know his followers by their fruits. So there is absolutly nothing wrong with fruit inspection.
What does this have to do with this topic?


Aaron

[Enobmurt]

yeah..uum...is everyone ignoring my question?

[SnapCase]

Originally posted by guitarman

What does this have to do with this topic?


Aaron

The question was asked "How do we have the right to call anyone a "Christian" or not.

So I answered :)

yeah..uum...is everyone ignoring my question

What is the difference between a Christian band and band of Christians?? Honestly?

Different audiences. Bands of Christians have more of an outreach.

Bottom line...they need to put food on the table.

[Enobmurt]

"What is the difference between a Christian band and band of Christians?? Honestly?

Different audiences. Bands of Christians have more of an outreach.

Bottom line...they need to put food on the table."

Isn't POD a Christian band...same audience as secular, but pretty outspoken about their faith.

How do they put food on the table when they aren't even outspoken about their faith? People won't know where the food is coming from or what type of food it is.

How do you glorify God without even mentioning God is your performances or songs?

I'm not saying there isn't a way....I just haven't heard it yet and would love some imput.

[SnapCase]

Isn't POD a Christian band...same audience as secular, but pretty outspoken about their faith.

They talk about their faith frequently. THere are tons of interviews that I can point you to when I'm at school.

How do you glorify God without even mentioning God is your performances or songs?

Christ is written throughout their songs! Listen to some of them..especially off their new album! It's great!

[timberwolf_s]

Christ is written throughout their songs! Listen to some of them..especially off their new album! It's great!
i would say especially from their older albums. snuff the punk and earlier stuff. their earlier music did a better job of presenting the gospel, however i think that the two newest albums do a much better job of reaching a lost world with the gospel.

[Enobmurt]

They talk about their faith frequently. THere are tons of interviews that I can point you to when I'm at school.

I know they are a Christian band...not just a band full of Christians...but that's what I'm wondering about. Why just go half way and be a band of christians...instead of a Christian band proclaiming their faith.

[SnapCase]

Why just go half way and be a band of christians...instead of a Christian band proclaiming their faith.

Where do bands like Rich Mullins and the Ragamuffin Band end up?

In the dusty Gospel section of the music store.

Most Christian bands end up in that section where no one who isn't a Christian will go. However if you come out as a regular band..you get air play on secular stations..MTV..and award shows.

There is the outreach. Out in the world proclaiming the Gospel.

How often do you see Relient K on MTV? On the Billboard Music Awards?? What kind of shows do they play at?? Christian ones :)

How many non-Christians go to a Christian concert?? not many.

Does that help any??

[Enobmurt]

Most Christian bands end up in that section where no one who isn't a Christian will go. However if you come out as a regular band..you get air play on secular stations..MTV..and award shows.

How can the bands make a difference though if the audience doesn't understand what makes the band different?

[Enobmurt]

There is also a danger of not being different enough, in that they don't proclaim anything, that the audience doesn't see that big a difference and won't bother caring. They might go "Sure they (the band) don't cuss or anything, but I don't cuss either, why should I change when I could still be just like them?"

[Unregistered]

Originally posted by Enobmurt


How can the bands make a difference though if the audience doesn't understand what makes the band different?

POD is constantly being labeled as this huge "Spiritual Band". I don't know how many times I've seen someone on tv comment on POD sayign "and they aren't afraid to speak out about their faith.." Actually I think I heard Carsen Daly say that this summer.

CHeck out some of the articles on them..I"m serious! They are constantly being asked about being Christians and what their music is all about. They speak CHrist.

By the way..I"m not even that big of a POD fan.

[MRGREEN23]

I just don't see their fruit....(POD)



Green

[Scott]

well, they appeared in a heavy metal magazine over here a few months ago and basically talked about how christ is the most important thing in their life. i think that is a pretty good witness, when I am worried about letting friends know about my faith.

[Jael]

You know, I 've been reading this thread from the start, and I realize that nobody in the secular world cares about these bands being christian or not. They like the music, they like the message and that's that. Is'nt good that people are getting a positive message? Who cares if Mark Tremmonti swings his guitar around his head screaming, JESUS LOVES YOU! People are getting a SEED from these bands. It's our job as Christians and friends to tthe world, to go out there and water that seed and make it grow! Sonny (from POD) can't go to every single person and say"Hey, you need to except Jesus or else your gonna burn in the pits of hell!" People will say, "Who the $%&^?! does this guy think he is?" As friends to the unsved we must go out there and say to them, "listen, you know that Creed song? Well here's what that really means..." As Christians, we are really greedy. We want to keep this message to ourselves. We all think that if it's not in a Christian venue, then it's secular. And if it's secular we should'nt touch it with a 10-foot pole. We want these bands to be stuck in a hole playing at church conventions and youth retreats. "Any Christian that goes mainstream with a message that belongs in the church is a rebel!!!" "AHHHHH!!!! Oh no! Did he just tell them that he loves God? He can't do that! They don't know God yet! They have to find him inside our church! NOOO!"

WE ARE TURNING INTO PHARISEES!!!
Let's just share a little, okay guys?
(This post was a genral post, it's not directed to any specific person or previous comment. I wish all Christians could read it, not just us.)

[Scott]

as paul said, when he was with the greeks, he became as a greek, when he was with the jews, he became as a jew. we have to do the same thing. If we are in a group of people who want to think about things like our faith (not religion), we should talk about it openly. when we are among people who do not want to hear about it, we should be subtle, and try to seem normal to them, so our quieter message can still be heard.

[Cadence]

POD is deffintely Christian. No arguements there. And I've seen and heard numerous stories of thier fruit.

Creed isn't Christian and as someone said earlier, they deny Christ. So it's not us judging them, it's themselves.

Lifehouse is an awesome group. I wish they were a bit more blatant with thier message of God, but I somehow see where they're coming from. They said they don't want to be called a Christian band(indicating they are Christians) because they don't want people to close thier minds to thier music. They Just want to relate to people.

I'm just glad they're a good, wholesome group who's not spitting profanity and vulgarness.

As far as thier lyrics being "christian", I use thier songs to worship to ALL the time. They used to lead worship for Malibu Vineyard and would use songs like "Hanging by a Moment" and "Everything" for thier worship songs.

so.......what do ya think?

[Enobmurt]

Who cares if Mark Tremmonti swings his guitar around his head screaming, JESUS LOVES YOU!
This troubles me....you don't care if the gospel is being spread or not?

People are getting a SEED from these bands.
What type of seed? They aren't hearing about Jesus when bands won't speak up about their faith. Just hearing a "good message" won't plant seeds in people. There are secular psychiatrists that give their patients good messages and advice...does that do any good for the glory of God?

It's our job as Christians and friends to the world
What scripture do you read? We aren't supposed to be friends with the world. Yeah we aren't to go out and be evil towards the world, we are to spread God's love...but we aren't to be friends with the world. There is a difference.

to go out there and water that seed and make it grow!
Again...anybody can give out a good message with the grace of God, secular or Christian...how is that planting a seed in the first place? Only the gospel of Jesus Christ is a seed

Sonny (from POD) can't go to every single person and say"Hey, you need to except Jesus or else your gonna burn in the pits of hell!" People will say, "Who the $%&^?! does this guy think he is?"
I don't see the relevance of this comment, because no one can go up to every single individual one by one to check the status of their salvation.

As friends to the unsved we must go out there and say to them, "listen, you know that Creed song? Well here's what that really means..."
I sure hope you research your Creed before spreading false testimony

As Christians, we are really greedy. We want to keep this message to ourselves.
Boy, if this is the way it is around your area, I will truly pray for you, because Christians don't want to keep the message to themselves around here. I don't think you can stereotype all Christians this way as greedy, because it's just not even close to truth.

We all think that if it's not in a Christian venue, then it's secular.
Not true...there are plenty of Christian bands that put their cd's in secular venues, POD being a prime example.

And if it's secular we should'nt touch it with a 10-foot pole. that would depend on the individual and if whether they consider secular music to be a stumbling block or not to their faith.

We want these bands to be stuck in a hole playing at church conventions and youth retreats. "Any Christian that goes mainstream with a message that belongs in the church is a rebel!!!" "AHHHHH!!!! Oh no! Did he just tell them that he loves God? He can't do that! They don't know God yet! They have to find him inside our church! NOOO!"
Where are you getting this information? I don't know anyone who wants the gospel to be locked up inside a church. My personal question was why not go full out about your faith in the first place and be a Christian band, instead of just a band of Christians who don't speak out about their faith.

as paul said, when he was with the greeks, he became as a greek, when he was with the jews, he became as a jew. we have to do the same thing. If we are in a group of people who want to think about things like our faith (not religion), we should talk about it openly. when we are among people who do not want to hear about it, we should be subtle, and try to seem normal to them, so our quieter message can still be heard.
Paul learned about their culture so that he could relate with the people. Paul did not grow silent about the gospel, he just simply found a way to relate with the people as Jesus did with parables.
Yes it is true that we shouldn't try to shove the gospel down people's throats, but you can't say that the entire secular crowd does not want to hear the gospel. Just try to tell that to secular POD fans who were saved at their concerts
If people don't want to hear the message at concerts...they don't have to listen...but to be quiet about your faith when there is a chance for even one person to be saved at a concert for the sake of the majority is not right.

They said they don't want to be called a Christian band(indicating they are Christians) because they don't want people to close thier minds to thier music. They Just want to relate to people.
saying they don't want to be a Christian band does not necessarily indicate they are christians. Creed doesn't want to be labeled a Christian band...I don't think that indicates them as even Christians considering only the lead singer of Creed is the only one of them to even grow up in a church..even growing up in a church, I don't think he is a Christian personally.

Assuming Lifehouse are Christians....what happens when they do "just relate to the people"? what happens next? They won't proclaim their faith, people won't know what to do next. They don't understand what makes Lifehouse different, and Lifehouse won't tell them they are Christians and that is what makes them different. People could just be easily confused and go to any God they make or find out there instead of Jesus Christ because Lifehouse won't tell them about Jesus Christ.

[Cadence]

Originally posted by Enobmurt

saying they don't want to be a Christian band does not necessarily indicate they are christians

What indicates to me that they're Christian bands are thier lyrics, Jason Wade is best friends with Kendall Payne(a christian artist), His parents were missionaries and he led worship for a Vineyard church.

This is the quote I was refering to: "My music is spiritually based, but we don't want to be labeled as a 'Christian band,' because all of a sudden people's walls come up and they won't listen to your music and what you have to say."
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/newsarticle.asp?nid=13983&cf=1377327

He said he didn't want to be labled that BECAUSE people put their walls up. Not BECAUSE they don't believe(which is what the singer from Creed said).

Originally posted by Enobmurt

Assuming Lifehouse are Christians....what happens when they do "just relate to the people"? what happens next? They won't proclaim their faith, people won't know what to do next. They don't understand what makes Lifehouse different, and Lifehouse won't tell them they are Christians and that is what makes them different. People could just be easily confused and go to any God they make or find out there instead of Jesus Christ because Lifehouse won't tell them about Jesus Christ.

That's why I said that I wished they were more blatant about their faith.

And why don't people have this argument over SixPence? They hardly ever talk about Christ. They don't preach either. But everyone just loves them the way they are. I am glad though that Leigh Nash was on "Roaring Lambs" and "City on a Hill"

Oh well.


And by the way, Jason Wade is NOT into fame at all. Someone said that earlier. But if you read that article I posted you'll see what I mean.

[SnapCase]

They aren't hearing about Jesus when bands won't speak up about their faith.

I've already given several examples of POD sharing their faith.

Enoburt, I'm starting to get an idea of what you are looking for here. You're expecting bands to stand up and preach to every single audience. You can't expect that.

Peoples way of evangelism correlates with their personality .

For some people...standing up and preaching is what they can do best. That is the best way they can proclaim Christ.

For some people...building relationships and living Christian lives is what they do best for proclaiming Christ.

For some people...using things like multimedia..music..art..etc.. is what they do to proclaim Christ.

Are any of these wrong? No. Where does it say that in Gods Word that in order to proclaim Christ you have to stand up and preach??? No where.

People have different personalities and respond to the Gospel in different ways. Some people respond to the preaching..some dont. SOme people respond to the relationships...some dont. SOme respond to the multimedia...some dont.

YOu can't say a band isn't proclaiming Christ simply because they aren't preaching a 10 minute "How to be saved" sermon every show.

[MRGREEN23]

YOu can't say a band isn't proclaiming Christ simply because they aren't preaching a 10 minute "How to be saved" sermon every show.

Has POD, or Lifehouse, or Creed EVER preached any type of "how to be saved" message at any one of their concerts????


No guessing here.......You have to prove it......

I think not!!!!!


Mr. Green....23

[Travis]

Your point?

That whole "how to be saved in a minute" speech is worthless. That is not how someone is going to become a true christian.

POD's music may plant seeds, the fruits of which we never see harvested.

[MRGREEN23]

Anyone can plant the seed. POD might say, "Jesus saves" at the end of their concert, but where is the harvest from that?

My point is that any blue-gum backwoods idiot can stand on a stage and plant a seed. It takes someone with a burden or passion for souls to stand up there and try to reap that harvest.


Something POD does not do!!!!!! Period.

I don't think anyone will argue with that. if you do, it is opinion, not fact, and that, my friend, is a fact!!!!


Mr. Green....23

[Travis]

Why do you consider your opinion a fact and mine an opinion?

[MRGREEN23]

POD doesn't profess to that..........

I don't know what they do at their concerts. i have never, and don't plan on gonig to any of them........

Mr. Green...23

[Iamchristosapien]

Well, dadgum it stupid thing erased it so i have to write it again.

Lifehouse - song 12 "Everything"
Creed - Not Christian but sends a positive message with a seed whether they know it or not.
PoD - Christian. I have not personally experianced one of their concerts but have been told by a friend that they do preach a gospel message. I really wish that this thing hadnt erased my last message but I'll try to recreate it...

Most un-saved/lost people that i know would not even want to pick up a CD that had songs that sang Praise the Lord, unfourtunantly that won't make it to the lost becuase they dont want to hear it. I enjoy that music(praise and worship) as much if not more than anyother christian but the lost dont like it, they also don't like to be preached to. The lost need to be reached and the only way to do that is to go to them, they arent coming to church because its boring and they will just get preached to. They want to have fun, we as christians need to change the entertainment industry by sending in wholesome entertainment, some of you may think that PoD is not exactly wholesome videos, but look at what the world is used to... Unfortunantly we can;t change the whole industry overnight except through an act of God but if we slowly raise the standard we can change it if we get enough christians like PoD out there we are willing to walk in the trash and try and pick it up. Also, how many of you listen to christian/non-secular music only? I'll make a bet that a good bit of you listen to all sorts of the trashy music you claim PoD is... Who are we to judge men and their heart towards God.

[SnapCase]

Has POD, or Lifehouse, or Creed EVER preached any type of "how to be saved" message at any one of their concerts????

Why does it matter? Is that the only way to proclaim Christ? I provided 3 different examples of proclaiming Christ. 2 of which require no preaching. I'm not seeing your point.

You don't have to set aside 5 or 10 minutes to proclaim Christ in a concert. There are other ways to do that.

[BigPhishFan]

I think I will have to agree with Iamchristosapien on his post.


Most un-saved/lost people that i know would not even want to pick up a CD that had songs that sang Praise the Lord, unfourtunantly that won't make it to the lost becuase they dont want to hear it.


That is so true, most Praise & Worship never make it out of the Christain home or Church. And thus, lost people can't hear it.


The lost need to be reached and the only way to do that is to go to them, they arent coming to church because its boring and they will just get preached to. They want to have fun, we as christians need to change the entertainment industry by sending in wholesome entertainment, some of you may think that PoD is not exactly wholesome videos, but look at what the world is used to...


I know I don't like sermon's that are long and boring, I like ones that are to the point and pack a punch, convicting alot of people in the process. I agree totally with the fact that "We as Christians need to change the entertainment industry by sending in wholesome entertainment." Sure, it'll take awhile to change the music endistrty, but with the help of PoD, Lifehouse, and others that will happen alot sooner than without them.


I'll make a bet that a good bit of you listen to all sorts of the trashy music you claim PoD is... Who are we to judge men and their heart towards God.


I listen to it, but I don't think it is trashy. If anything, I think it does the Secular Community a bg thing, they plant the seed in their hearts and it's there to stay.

[Christosapien]

I wasnt saying PoD is trashy but people are saying it is becuase they don't sing christian music the way they are used to and they probably listen to stuff like KoRn so why are they complaigning about PoD trying to puit out a positive message.

That probably isn't going to sound the way i would like it to but my mind is moving really fast so i cant get the words out that i want....

[Cadence]

Originally posted by MRGREEN23


Has POD, or Lifehouse, or Creed EVER preached any type of "how to be saved" message at any one of their concerts????


No guessing here.......You have to prove it......

I think not!!!!!


Mr. Green....23

POD deffinitely has preached the gospel. I've had friends goto thier concerts and tell me about it. And it's not just rumors i'm hearing from them. The people who told would not lie.

Creed IS NOT Christian AT ALL. They've said so.

ANd I wish Lifehouse WOULD preach and tell the crowd about Jesus. But sad to say I don't think they do. However, they have a very wholesome message of love and peace, so even if they wern't Christians, they still have a positive message.

[Enobmurt]

And why don't people have this argument over SixPence? They hardly ever talk about Christ. They don't preach either. But everyone just loves them the way they are. I am glad though that Leigh Nash was on "Roaring Lambs" and "City on a Hill"
Yeah, Sixpence started off not that outgoing about their faith, but they are coming out more and more.

Enoburt, I'm starting to get an idea of what you are looking for here. You're expecting bands to stand up and preach to every single audience. You can't expect that.
I'm not expecting a preaching...just the mention of Jesus Christ.

For some people...standing up and preaching is what they can do best. That is the best way they can proclaim Christ.
Agreed

For some people...building relationships and living Christian lives is what they do best for proclaiming Christ. How do they know they are Christian lives when they won't hear the name Jesus Christ?

For some people...using things like multimedia..music..art..etc.. is what they do to proclaim Christ. If they mention His name, sure...but how do they proclaim Christ in music if there is no mention of Christ? There are lots of secular artists out there with positive messages too.

Has POD, or Lifehouse, or Creed EVER preached any type of "how to be saved" message at any one of their concerts???? First off...I'd just like to know why you keep mentioning Creed. Do you seriously think they are Christian?
As for POD...I have friends that have been saved at their concerts, that's proof enough of their fruit for me.

My point is that any blue-gum backwoods idiot can stand on a stage and plant a seed. It takes someone with a burden or passion for souls to stand up there and try to reap that harvest. Actually, only Jesus saves, no matter how good the speaker or how bad the message is...Jesus can save either way.

"Something POD does not do!!!!!! Period.

I don't think anyone will argue with that. if you do, it is opinion, not fact, and that, my friend, is a fact!!!!"

Again...tell that to my friend that was saved at a POD concert.

I don't know what they do at their concerts. i have never, and don't plan on gonig to any of them........
If you've never seen...what gives you the authority to say this?

? I provided 3 different examples of proclaiming Christ. 2 of which require no preaching. I'm not seeing your point. How do you proclaim Christ without ever mentioning Christ's name?

[lovegod&guitar]

I have noticed that some people run away or at least flip off the listening switch the minute you say "Jesus". This is why I don't break out Scripture on an active non-believer. By active I mean that they try to oppose what I say or what the Bible says. If they are against something, you'll have a hard time using it to witness to them. You have to show them through your lifestyle, through what you say and what you do. You have to work them over gradually, not beat them in the head with Scripture and theology. Let them know you as a person, and not just as someone who wants to change the way they think. Only when you have meaning in their life can you witness to them on a personal level. Just my thoughts, no one has to agree. Everybody have a great Christmas- enjoy the time with your families. If you know someone who doesn't have family around for one reason or another, invite them to some of your stuff. Show love. Pull together.

[nestamanchris]

Originally posted by MRGREEN23


Has POD, or Lifehouse, or Creed EVER preached any type of "how to be saved" message at any one of their concerts????


No guessing here.......You have to prove it......

I think not!!!!!


Could someone explain to me why this matters either way. Are we supposed to expect a "how to be saved' message" by any band? They're not ordained ministers, they're musicians. They write songs, not sermons.

[nestamanchris]

Amen, 'LoveGod'. Actions do speak louder than words.

[Cadence]

Originally posted by nestamanchris


Could someone explain to me why this matters either way. Are we supposed to expect a "how to be saved' message" by any band? They're not ordained ministers, they're musicians. They write songs, not sermons.

Amen my brotha!!!

[MRGREEN23]

It matters. Because they take on the Name of a Christian bamd, and they have a responsibility to spread the Gospel....

Christian = Christ like. Christ shared the gospel, we should.....

And not to mention, this is considered their Ministry?????

Duh, let's grow up a little and get off the "Ninny" here.

If it is your ministry, then yes, you should Minister, and the whole point of ministry is to see souls saved.....

Now it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this one out.

Mr. Green....23

[barberjo]

I make videos for a living (no, not cool MTV videos). I work for a defense contractor - I make videos of radars and missiles and things. Is it my responsibility to make Christian videos? Is it my responsibility to preach the gospel audibly every minute of every day while I'm at work? No - it wouldn't be effective.

Also, yes, Jesus preached the gospel (sort of - he was kinda living the gospel). But not by continually giving "How to be Saved" sermons. He preached the gospel by healing the sick and by feeding the hungry.

This is what POD does. They spread light to people that most of us on this board would never go near. They should be commended for what they do.


john

[MRGREEN23]

Is it my responsibility to preach the gospel audibly every minute of every day while I'm at work?
Uh....yes, who ever said it wasn't our responsibility to preach wherever we are...?????

Oh, that's right, watered down complacent people say that...



He preached the gospel by healing the sick and by feeding the hungry. This is what POD does.

So people get fed, and healed at POD concerts???

I don't think so!!!


Mr. Green....23

[barberjo]

You're missing the point. Should I use my job as a platform for spreading Christianity? Or, should I work on a personal level with those that I work with every day? Should I attempt to infuse the videos that I create with the gospel, or should I lead a Christlike life in an attempt to influence my cooworkers?

And, yes, people do get fed and healed at POD shows. They get fed and healed emotionally and spiritually.

I see that you are a youth pastor. Does that mean that you work at a church office every day?


John

[guitarman]

Ok, there's a lot of discussion going on here and a lot of speculation going on. I don't know if anyone has mentioned this so I will. Here is a quote from www.creed.com addressing their religion. Take it for what it's worth.

Taken from http://www.creed.com/band/faq.html#4

4. Is Creed a Christian band?
"Are we a Christian band? This is a question we are asked a lot because of some of the references made in the lyrics. No, we are not a Christian band. A Christian band has an agenda to lead others to believe in their specific religious beliefs. We have no agenda! Those references were made at a time in my life when I was questioning how I was raised, and searching for where I stood concerning those issues. This is not to say I have abandoned those beliefs, just searching for where they fit into my life." -- Scott Stapp

5. Are the members of Creed Christians?
"This is a very personal question because the whole foundation of being a Christian is a personal relationship. I can say that all the members believe in God, but we each differ on our methods to reach Him. We are all still learning and growing, and God can only answer this question, because who are we to say that being a Christian is the only way to heaven. I know this might be hard to understand for all the Christians who follow the band--and trust me, I know where you are coming from--but let us continue to seek, and if that is the way, then we will find, if we continue to knock, the doors will be opened." -- Scott Stapp

6. If Creed is a Christian band, why does Scott say "God ****" in WTLF?
(First of all, see question #4.) "Why do we use GD in WTLF? First of all let me say that there was never an intention of cursing God. It was strictly an emotional response to a tragic situation of losing two friends to suicide. I know some of you live by the words of never taking the Lord's name in vain, and I feel in my heart that there was never that intention. Some of you will never agree with my use of that word, and I respect your convictions. I guess this is between God and me, and my heart has no conviction for the use of this word because I feel God understood my situation. If some of you could look at the bigger picture in that song and not focus on the word, you would understand that it is a cry to the lost, put in a way that they could understand." -- Scott Stapp

7. If Creed is a Christian band, how come they're not on a Christian label?
See question #4.

8. OK, so they're not Christian--are they religious?
"Please do not limit this band to only dealing with spiritual issues. I wrote about spiritual issues on My Own Prison because that was what I was dealing with personally at the time. I write about things that are very personal to me, and things that I see and feel from the world around me. All I can say is that writing for this band is not centrally focused around spiritual issues, so understand that not all of our songs in the future will deal with the same things MOP dealt with." -- Scott Stapp


There ye go.


Aaron

[SnapCase]

It matters. Because they take on the Name of a Christian bamd, and they have a responsibility to spread the Gospel....

Yes...and they do.

Uh....yes, who ever said it wasn't our responsibility to preach wherever we are...?????

Yes we are to preach the Gospel whereever we are. But that does NOT mean we have to use words to do so. Methods of evangelism change..however the basics never change. That is love. Love never changes...however methods do.

It would make me really sad to hear someone say that the only way "Good Christians" can share the Gospel is by preaching. That would be sad.

I don't think so!!!

We've had several people on this thread have experience that they have been fed..we've actually heard of someone being converted at a POD concert..imagine that ;)

[Christosapien]

MrGreen,
(I don't know if you really are but i read it up a few posts) If you are a youth minister then don't you want to see people get saved in anyway possible? If the lost can be reached then let them do it their way, just because they don't do it your way doesn't make it wrong. Also, my church doesn't give the 5-minute salvation message every meeting, does that mean we aren't christian. People don't get healed every week that I know of, does that mean we are doing something wrong? Sometimes things happen differant at other places then what you are used to, I respect the way you believe things should be done I think people should always be getting healed and fed and blessed by God, but how many of us are willing to make the sacrifice of losing some of our dignity by maybe walking up to someone in the middle of the mall and praying for someone when led to by God(with the person's permission of course). I am by no means the example for this, but it seems as though you are saying we need to give the salvation message to everyone we see instead of letting people see Christ through us we have to show them.

13 ¶ When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Jesus did not tell peter who He was. We should live so that people ask us what we have that makes us so differant, we should not have to walk up to people to tell them we are differant, they should be able to see it. If they cannot see it, a 5-minute salvation message will not change them at all.


:Edit: Read this http://www.family.org/pplace/pi/music/a0018202.html :end edit:

[MRGREEN23]

If you are a youth minister
I am
just because they don't do it your way doesn't make it wrong
Agreed...
Also, my church doesn't give the 5-minute salvation message every meeting, does that mean we aren't christian
No, but just because I park myself on a church pew doesn't make me a Christian any more than parking myself in a garage makes me a car.
People don't get healed every week that I know of, does that mean we are doing something wrong?
That's for you and God to decide, not me.
but how many of us are willing to make the sacrifice of losing some of our dignity by maybe walking up to someone in the middle of the mall and praying for someone when led to by God
Sounds to me like you understand what I am saying.. We SHOULD all desire that, but we don't...But, it's okay, you get out of something what you put into it....It's called complacency.....Every Christian is guilty of it at some time, I'm sure.......It takes a revelation from God to "put the fire under us".
but it seems as though you are saying we need to give the salvation message to everyone we see instead of letting people see Christ through us we have to show them
Basically, yes.....there are some exceptions. But, yes....

Does this offend some of you? Is that me, or the Holy Spirit convicting you? Just wondering....
Jesus did not tell peter who He was.
He didn't have to. Peter actually could touch this Man of God. Peter knew Him intimately as his friend. I don't see the correlation here.
It sounds to me like you are fishing........
We should live so that people ask us what we have that makes us so differant,
That's a cowardly cop-out....Let me explain... If you see a skin-head freak in the mall, with all black clothes on, and pierced "everything", and smoking, and black make-up on, do you walk up to them and say, "what makes you different from me?" No way........The same with the world. They might notice something different, but whose to say they would approach you...
Same thing......


Mr. Green....23

[Christosapien]

Originally posted by MRGREEN23

He didn't have to. Peter actually could touch this Man of God. Peter knew Him intimately as his friend. I don't see the correlation here.
It sounds to me like you are fishing........

Shouldn't we know Him as a personal friend? Doesn't Christian mean Christ Like meaning we should be just like Christ which means that men should be able to see Him through us.

[MRGREEN23]

Shouldn't we know Him as a personal friend? Doesn't Christian mean Christ Like meaning we should be just like Christ which means that men should be able to see Him through us.

Key word here is SHOULD . But the Pharisees should have seen Jesus for who He was also, but they were blinded by their religious do's and don'ts.......They were too busy praying for the Messiah, that when He did pass by, they accused Him of disrupting their "scheduled service".

People SHOULD be able to see Christ in us....

I SHOULD be able to go through the drive-thru at Wendy's and get what I order, but it rarely ever happens.

Everyone SHOULD get off their soft covered pews and start doing something for God...

Should is the key word......
Too bad we don't do what we should do...........

Do you see where I am going here?

If POD is in a position where they are fulfilling a "calling" on thier life to "minister" to people through thier music, then they have the responsibility to openly discuss Christ and the cross at every concert.....

This does not, however, mean that they are required to speak Christ to everyone they meet, on the street, at the store, wherever...They Should do it, but their ministry detail does not imply that.BUT , and that's a great big But!!!!! They should, in their ministry find every opportunity to lead people to the love of Christ......

My ministry is youth evangelism
Theirs is music.....

Everything I do in ministry points toward the cross
Does theirs?


Please see my point, I am not saying that you shouldn't listen to POD.. I am saying that they really don't impress ME ......

They aren't really doing anything to show me that they really care about Souls..........

Do you understand my point?

It's fulfilling the call on your life, and mine, and thiers.....etc.

Mr. Green....23

[barberjo]

SO, are you saying that every Christian should have a career in ministry?

john

[barberjo]

Originally posted by MRGREEN23


Oh, that's right, watered down complacent people say that...



I didn't appreciate this very much, BTW.

I work with the same 5 (non Christian) people every workday of every week. If I constantly bombarded them with a sermon, not only would they not become Christians, but they would probably be turned away from Christianity forever! Christ was never annoying.

John

[MRGREEN23]

SO, are you saying that every Christian should have a career in ministry?
Never said that..........Every Christian should look for opportunities in everyday that they can witness to people.
If I constantly bombarded them with a sermon, not only would they not become Christians, but they would probably be turned away from Christianity forever! Christ was never annoying.
Never did I say that you should bombard people.....

POD does not do a concert in the same City day after day, do they? No. They should minister at EVERY concert. Different people at every concert.

You plant the seed first, then live by example in your workplace.....

Mr. Green....23

[Christosapien]

If they start preaching at every concert the word does get around that they do and lost people dont want to go to a concert to hear a sermon. They want to go to have a good time and I think that PoD is smart to not preach at every concert but on occasion so as not to scare people away. That is if that is really why they are doing it, maybe he is just not a public speaker as some people are not.

[RunningOnEmpty]

OK, so I know very little about PoD (not exactly my style) and I'm new to this thread, but my $0.02 worth -> I have been a follower of Christ for a long time. I have seen a lot of seminars on evangelism. I have seen a lot of evangelists. I have seen people make "professions of faith" after briefly talking to someone about Christ or hearing the word preached. I have seen most of those same people fall away like the seed in shallow soil. Not all, but most. There is not a "perfect" way that everyone should build up the kingdom. There are a multitude of ways that Christ draws men (and women) to Himself. If God has called PoD and Lifehouse to the ministries they are in, I trust that God will lead them to complete the work He has called them to. I personally WILL NOT judge them further than that.

The first time I heard "Hanging By A Moment" by Lifehouse I cried in worship. Since then opportunities have come to discuss the lyrics to this song with non-believers. Is this a true ministry that is effective? Um, the fruit will tell ... and personally, I'm not called to be a fruit inspector, just a branch of the same Vine.

[Cadence]

Originally posted by MRGREEN23
Uh....yes, who ever said it wasn't our responsibility to preach wherever we are...?????

Oh, that's right, watered down complacent people say that...

So, where in the Bible does it say "preach everywhere you are"?

And where does it NOT say "let your life be a witness"?

Originally posted by MRGREEN23

So people get fed, and healed at POD concerts???


If you REALLY want to doubt P.O.D.'s ministry, you can do it after reading this: http://www.zianet.com/straightout/warrior_feedback.htm

Scroll down past the pics and you'll find stories of athiests getting converted and drug addicts cleaning up.
I also read some comments on here about people getting saved and P.O.D. ministering to the crowd.

Not to be rude, but it seems like they reach more people than you do. So please do NOT attack thier ministry especially if you know nopthing about them.

[Cadence]

"I really love the fact that Sonny gave his testimony and is always so open when sharing at shows. I also was interested in how they were able to meet the members of Marilyn Manson and how God could totally use them by being a good witness and light to other bands that are out there. Not to mention all people that they may come in contact with especially the fans.
Melissa a southwest warrior"

This is a quote from a fan

Also I just wanted to let you know that P.O.D. isn't a Christian band. In fact, when they started they didn't even know their was a Christian music scene. They just sung about what they believed. They didn't TRY to be anything other then what they were in Christ.

I rarely find any "christian" bands like that.

[SnapCase]

I told you all there was lots of evidence :)

[Christosapien]

I agree with running on empty... If God called them then God called them. If not, o well, they are still sending a positive message.
I will be leaveing this thread now due to the fact i am getting too judgemental of some people and not listening, im getting to the point of arguing for arguments sake. Hope this resolves soon in a Christ like way.

[Cadence]

I'm sorry you feel that way.

[barberjo]

Originally posted by MRGREEN23

Never did I say that you should bombard people.....



Yes you did . . . I quote:

John said: "Is it my responsibility to preach the gospel audibly every minute of every day while I'm at work?"

MRGREEEN23 said: "Uh....yes, who ever said it wasn't our responsibility to preach wherever we are...?????
Oh, that's right, watered down complacent people say that... "


See, you did say that.


John.

[Echo142002]

(This is Christosapien using his little brothers account)


I am leaving so that i don't start argueing just for arguing, im trying to allow this to stay civil and to keep from getting angry at others beliefs which would be bad. We may not see eye to eye but we are working together whether we like it or not and all the pieces fit together somehow whether or not we can see it.

[Enobmurt]

I would still like to know how to testify without actually mentioning Jesus Christ.

How do you bring glory to God without giving God recognition?

Why be a band full of Christians who don't recognize God publically like Lifehouse, instead of a Christian band that recognizes God and gives Him glory?

You say people will notice a difference in their lifestyle and the way they live....but how will they know where that difference comes from, who causes it, and how to change themselves?

[SnapCase]

Enoburt,

It has been mentioned several times that they do use the name of Christ. There have been several examples provided.

[Enobmurt]

It has been mentioned several times that they do use the name of Christ. There have been several examples provided.
I'm not talking any band in particular, These questions are in general with Lifehouse being an example.

[Scott]

and if it starts being about an individual band, Brent wants it shut down.

[RunningOnEmpty]

Enobmurt says: "I would still like to know how to testify without actually mentioning Jesus Christ.

How do you bring glory to God without giving God recognition?"

Maybe I'm way off base here, but I believe that God receives glory when we live out our passion IN His name regardless of whether or not we actually speak His name. Do the trees audibly say, "Jesus is Lord"? The rocks? The birds? etc. But God (through Paul) tells us in Romans that nature itself testifies to His glory. OK, so we're not trees, or rocks, but redeemed children of God. That doesn't mean that He receives no glory when we are not specifically speaking His name. God is glorified when we live for Him and through Him (whether we are preaching or making music or just living the life He has called us to in faith!).

[Enobmurt]

Do the trees audibly say, "Jesus is Lord"? The rocks? The birds? etc. But God (through Paul) tells us in Romans that nature itself testifies to His glory.

Well yes....but in this way, every human testifies to His glory because we're all made in God's image whether Christian or not.

OK, so we're not trees, or rocks, but redeemed children of God. That doesn't mean that He receives no glory when we are not specifically speaking His name. God is glorified when we live for Him and through Him (whether we are preaching or making music or just living the life He has called us to in faith!).

Creation speaks that there is a God, our actions can speak that there is a God, but without mentioning the name Jesus Christ...how are they going to know who that God is?

[RunningOnEmpty]

They won't know unless we eventually do speak the name of Christ. Again, I won't speak for any of the members of the aforementioned bands, but for me. I am supremely confident in the sovreignity of God. He leads us to opportunities to bear witness to His good news. But, not all of us are called to the same method of "witnessing". I believe that God leads sinners to the place where they want to know Him: sometimes through the words of believers, but more often through the actions and attitudes of believers. The Bible says that they will know we are Christians by our love, not necessarily our words.

[RunningOnEmpty]

Sorry, just a little off topic. But relevant though, I think.

[Jael]

Wow, this is getting good! I'm learning as we go along. I'm in a "band of Christians" and we have stated from the start, We are'nt doing this for Christians. We make music so that we can influence a change of positive lifestyle in indiviuals who don't know Christ. (Hey, that sounds like a Mission Stament!) Anyhow, I belive that there are artist out there who are called to help the body, and there are artist who are not. We are part of that group. Sure Christians can get something out of it, but they won't feel the words lik an unsaved person will feel the words! Like this Lyric...
"What is true love,
Is it in you?
Is it in me?
Could it be that we don't know it well at all?"
I wrote this with my bandmate when I was dating a girl who she and I were very attached and started losing touch of our relationship's with Christ. Neither she or I really knew what love was but yet we would say "I Love You". Saying that entails a HUGE commitment and I was'nt ready for that, neither was she. For the unsaved they can understand that, I don't have to say that my relationship with Jesus was being affected. They hear words that can help them figure out what love truly means to them, to others around them, And hopefully they'll realize that the words we wrote shows that there is another love, one far greater then anything they've experienced. For Christians it works just as well. The story behind the song is something they could relate to. And NOWHERE in the entire song does it mention God. But with the knowledge of my relationship with Christ, they'll understand that. I simply feel that these band SHOULD say that they are Christians or not. Easy. Creed says their not. O.K. that's that. POD says they are. End of story. Lifehouse, I really don't know anything about them except for "Hanging by a moment & Everything" THis argument has gone on way too long man somebody come to a resolution!

[Scott]

cool, what kinda music do you play?

[Unregistered]

This is enobmurt without the time to register....

"They won't know unless we eventually do speak the name of Christ."

That is the point....

"The Bible says that they will know we are Christians by our love, not necessarily our words."

The Bible says they will notice we are different, not necessarily that we are Christians, because they might not know what a Christian is.

"Sorry, just a little off topic. But relevant though, I think."

not off topic

"Sure Christians can get something out of it, but they won't feel the words lik an unsaved person will feel the words!"

This isn't about how we feel...it's about giving glory to God

"But with the knowledge of my relationship with Christ, they'll understand that. I simply feel that these band SHOULD say that they are Christians or not."

I'm sorry....I don't fully understand this part.

[RunningOnEmpty]

<<<"They won't know unless we eventually do speak the name of Christ."

That is the point.... >>>


Key word was eventually . I just don't believe that every band who is made up of Christian players must proclaim the gospel in a nutshell in every song or even in every concert. Maybe their lyrics awaken the hunger for God in unbelievers. God uses that hunger to draw people to Him. I've seen it and experienced it personally.

God has different callings for different people. All christians are not called to be vocational ministers. Likewise, all musicians are not called to be "christian" musicians. They can be Christians who are also musicians by trade.

[MRGREEN23]

I just don't believe that every band who is made up of Christian players must proclaim the gospel in a nutshell in every song or even in every concert.
And I do believe it....

I guess that's the difference, but then again, it wasn't your son that died for all of humanity, now was it, so you might not feel as adamate about spreading the Gospel THROUGH their calling..??????

I love getting people fired up!!!!

Mr. Green....23

[rainoflove]

Hello everybody.

First of all merry christmas to ya all!

Want to thank the person that posted the link to the POD site- all the testimonies and stuff were awesome!! now THATS what i call fruit.

Let me use this as an example of my point: at my work there are like no christians. But they all know that i am a christian: and they knew it simply by the way i acted and my lifestyle.

Second day at work and my BOSS turns around to me and says (in front of most of the guys) "I notice you don't swear and curse like the rest of us? Are you a christian or something?"

That blew me away, that he could spot it just like that!! So yeah, is said i was and that was that. No one really started hating me because i treated them like normal people who have their own beliefs and are allowed to have those beliefs.

There's one guy here who's really cool and we get along flippin well. Originally when i met him he was an athiest. So the conversation goes around the office about sex and stuff, and the guys ask me 'when was my first time' you know? So i tell them i'm still a virgin and don't believe in sex before marriage and it blows them away that a guy who's 21 years old has still not had sex.

My athiest buddy has since started believing that there is a God and perhaps it matters!! Whats my point: i don't profess to be the perfect example here, but i understand that living the life is more important. If on my first day i came blazing into the office with a message of 'turn or burn' or any type of salvation message these guys would have immediately turned their backs up. Its as they started getting to know me that they've started asking questions you know? There is a way of 'preaching' the gospel without getting people's backs up. After many questions to non believers and reading about, i've noticed that the no 1 thing people hate about us is the fact that we try to get everyone to conform to our beliefs, proclaiming this gospel as the absolute truth and their present beliefs as hogwash.

Now although it is true that the gospel is the only truth, we cannot tell people their beliefs are hogwash!! We have no idea of what experiences they've had!!

So, not to get off topic. POD for me are undoubtably christians. Creed i have no idea, but i don't like their music anyway. Nevertheless, when listening to the lyrics i DO GET some spiritual food. Same with when i listen to U2 and the first time i heard 'hanging by a moment' i was almost in tears and i never knew who the band was or anything. The words for me were undoubtably about God because you don't say those kind of things to a girl (desperate for truth. Desperate for change.) And if anyone here knows Tree63 and the impact they've had in SA i'd say that its all flippin brilliant. Let Creed and Lifehouse rock on: the mere fact we're having this debate means they must've had some impact on people's lives.

Ok just a last thought. Christian band: signed to a christian label, do gigs at christian venues, sell cd's in christian stores, help to BUILD and EDIFY the BODY ONLY. (Mostly worship music falls into this arena) I have my thoughts on some of the ways this whole christian band thing is done (Christian entertainment bugs me) but nevertheless. I think worship bands should be the only real 'christian bands' out there, and performance bands should be the next definition:

Band of christians: signed to the label that suits them best, do gigs pretty much anywhere, sell cd's in any record store, help to build the body of Christ AND help to bring in the lost. Needless to say, i would rather classify jars of clay as a band of christians than a christian band. And how they bring in the lost is really up to how they feel God leads them. (5 min sermon or not?)

Both should be accountable to God and accountable to their own local church and their local church leaders and of course to each other. Those are the people they are accountable to, as those people understand and know their callings, their trials etc. etc. better than we do. Therefore: let us not judge them. Let all of that be between God and themselves, and between the godly people in their lives that lead and encourage them.

And both should write original music that brings only the best to God! There's nothing worse than 'hey, lets be a band that sounds like (insert latest fad here) but we'll make them christian, package them nicely, and at least the christians will have their own (insert latest fad here) so we can all have our own special little entertainment, feel comfortable, and be happy!'

Excuse me while i puke at that. That's what i call commercialisation of christianity!!! No thanks mam!!!

Ok, thats enough for now.
bye bye!

[MRGREEN23]

Great testimony, but everyone is missing my point here.....

You are in your workplace, and you minister through your lifestyle....Many other people do the same...and we are all called to do similar things.......

BUT, when you are called to minister to people (pastors, evangelists, Christian Musicians)..........You have a responsibility to preach that gospel at every opportunity......

What I am saying, is that POD, and anyone else who feel that they are truly fulfilling the call of God on their lives should carry that call, and spread their testimony, or share the greatness of Christ's love..........

If they are not doing that at every concert, then they are just "playing music".....and anybody can do that.....


Try to understand what I am trying to say.......

You are called to do what you do......You don't have to entertain people, you live by example.. They don't, they have one night, and one opportunity to reach as many people as possible. That's my point......

Mr. Green.....23

[barberjo]

Originally posted by MRGREEN23
You are in your workplace, and you minister through your lifestyle....Many other people do the same...and we are all called to do similar things.......

BUT, when you are called to minister to people (pastors, evangelists, Christian Musicians)..........You have a responsibility to preach that gospel at every opportunity......



Why is their calling any different than mine? Why must they audibly proclaim the gospel all of the time, but I don't have to? What's different about musicians?

And, no, not just anybody can play music.

John

[Scott]

i don't think anyone is saying that they should deny being christians.

rather that they don't need to be in your face about their faith, just live Christlike lives, and write Christian lyrics. It's not as if this isnt a successful formula, the greatest example being U2, with Bono writing obviously Christian lyrics, but the public still having a huge hunger for their work. People want to hear about what we have to say, they don't want to be "bible bashed".

also, christian music has it's place, but it should be the equivalent of teaching, only to music, if you know what i mean. But we need evangelistic music too, spiritual milk if you want, for people who don't know the Lord yet.

[MRGREEN23]

I guess we disagree...

My heart as a minister is evangelism, so I view everything that is done as opportunities to reach people, and in my opinion, be that as it may, is that POD wastes their opportunities to do so.....


And Bono is great, but his lyrics can be categorized the same as Scott Stapp's (Creed) lyrics. They are more reflectional than spiritual......


Mr. Green....23

[Scott]

he sings about Jesus coming to earth (one man comes in the name of love). couldnt be much more blatant to me. :)

[SnapCase]

Are the stories of POD having converts at their concerts just getting ignored or what?? :)

[MRGREEN23]

That's a matter of interpretation of the song....


For the very next lines says, "One man comes and goes".....

Now, who is this referring to???

And if you are suggesting, then why not suggest that the first one is someone else.......

Blatant......more like Unclear!!!!


Mr. Green....23

[Scott]

Jesus ascended into Heaven. He isnt on the Earth anymore, He left the Holy Spirit.

[barberjo]

Let's not turn this into a discussion of a particular U2 song - start a new thread if you want to.

John

I agree with Snap - are the stories of converts at POD concerts being ignored?

[MRGREEN23]

Not ignored, just very reserved.........



Mr. green,................23

[barberjo]

Originally posted by MRGREEN23
Not ignored, just very reserved.........



Mr. green,................23


What in the heck does that mean?


John

[MRGREEN23]

It means until I see the fruit from it (not some info-mercial off their website) I am skeptical of it....

I right of which I have the priviledge.

[JT]

MRGREEN: A few posts back, it sounded like you were saying that because some people have occupations where they work with the same people day in and day out, it was OK for them to build a witness of lifestyle, but since bands are interacting with people for only a night, they should be presenting the gospel clearly. Is that an accurate read of what you said?

If so, couldn't you also say that a band is interacting with the people in the music industry on a day to day basis? And those are the people they are witnessing to?

[barberjo]

Here's a quote from Sonny from POD (just in case anyone wasn't sure if they are Christians)


"Hey Everyone,


Much Love from here in Sunny SouthTown California.
I know it's been a while since the last time I wrote,
but things have been crazy busy and the time sure
does fly by. All is well with the P.O.D. Kamp...We
have been enjoying our time off, that's for sure! But
we can't wait to see you all this summer. Thanks to
all you warriors who came out and supported us while
we were out with Primus and Sevendust. You guys made
a serious impact to both bands. I don't think either
band has seen that kind of realness in an audience be-
fore. Your Faith, your passion, your joy, your strength,
and most of all, your Love was evident in the way you
guys represented. I'm telling you, can't nobody fade
P.O.D.'s crew! You guys are awesome. Remember to draw
close to God and try to stay as close to him as possible,
that way you Know , and you can Feel and See what God
is doing.


Heb.10:22-25 ..let us draw near to God with a sincere
heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts
sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and
having our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold
unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised
is faithful. And let us consider how we may spur one
another on toward love and good deeds. Let us not give
up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing,
but let us encourage one another - and all the more as
you see the Day approaching.


So again I thank you all for Shining with us, like you
did, so that the whole world could witness. And you
better be there again so we can hang! Be ready, be
geared up, and ready to LOVE. And for those that don't
know and for those that doubt....


James 1:5-6....If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask
God, who gives generously to all without finding fault,
and it will be given to him. But when he asks, he must
believe and not doubt, because he who doubts is like a
wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind.


Trust Jah. We LOVE you brotha's and sista's.
Pray for us, we'll pray for you."


See ya soon........


your brotha,


sonny"





Peace.

john

[Cadence]

Originally posted by MRGREEN23
is that POD wastes their opportunities to do so.....Did you read that site I put up? There are numerous testimonies of being saved at POD's concerts. And didn't you say earlier that you didn't even really know much about them? If so, how can you make such a claim. I suggest you study thier lives before you make any assumption.

Originally posted by MRGREEN23
BUT, when you are called to minister to people (pastors, evangelists, Christian Musicians).POD IS ministering to people AND they're ministering to God. They minister to me.

Jesus told us to make DISCIPLES, not converts. The only means of true discipleship is through relationship building. Now yes, it's true that POD doesn't make personal relationships with EVERYONE, but they ARE building relationships through their music. SO many non saved people love thier music and KNOW they are Christian. PLEASE check that site i gave earlier.
http://www.zianet.com/straightout/warrior_feedback.htm

Originally posted by MRGREEN23
If they are not doing that at every concert, then they are just "playing music"What if they're worshiping?

Originally posted by MRGREEN23
is that POD wastes their opportunities to do so..... No they don't. Check the site.

Originally posted by MRGREEN23
It means until I see the fruit from it (not some info-mercial off their website) I am skeptical of it.... It's not THIER site. It's someone elses. Why are you being like this? Have you seen the fruit firsthand from EVERY Christian band that YOU listen to?

[RunningOnEmpty]

Mr. Green, it seems to me like YOU are the one getting worked up here. :D . Your comments seem to be of an unedifying sort, but still I will defend my ideas as non-confrontationally as possible :) .

I am a musician. I have questioned my calling to the music industry continuously because I truly cannot see how singing to Christians leads non-Christians to faith. If we are really concerned about evangelism then we have to meet non-believers where they are. AND we must gain an audience with them before they will listen to anything we have to say. We can't preach our "church language" lyrics at them and think they won't be offended or full of contempt. I believe that Chrisitan musicians who play in a secular market have the possibility of a MUCH greater impact for Christ than even the most popular artist in a Christian venue. And if the only people who are reached by Christian musicians are other Christians then we are not following the example of Christ himself. He did not come for the well, but for the sick. I WILL NOT judge any of these bands personally. I refuse.

[MRGREEN23]

it seems to me like YOU are the one getting worked up here
Not at all
I am a musician.
As I.......
If we are really concerned about evangelism then we have to meet non-believers where they are
Agreed, but irrelevant to this topic.
AND we must gain an audience with them before they will listen to anything we have to say
Disagree. That's the patty-cake way of doing it....You plant the seed, and God gives the increase....
We can't preach our "church language" lyrics at them and think they won't be offended or full of contempt
I guess Jesus didn't ever offend anyone.????
I believe that Chrisitan musicians who play in a secular market have the possibility of a MUCH greater impact for Christ than even the most popular artist in a Christian venue
And they have a greater opportunity to fail...."Do not be yolked with unbelievers". Not just a marriage thing.....
I WILL NOT judge any of these bands personally. I refuse Not judging. That job belongs to God. Just checking out the fruit on the tree.......And it looks barren to me....


Mr. Green....23

[rainoflove]

I hate doing the quote thing because it seems that i'm picking on a particular person, so no one get fired up here i'm just using it to illustrate my point.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe that Chrisitan musicians who play in a secular market have the possibility of a MUCH greater impact for Christ than even the most popular artist in a Christian venue
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote fromt the response from mrgreen:
And they have a greater opportunity to fail...."Do not be yolked with unbelievers". Not just a marriage thing.....

Of course they do!!! To me, that equals more respect out to them for taking the necessary risks! If all i ever do is hang around in a church all my life, exactly how does THAT make me stronger??? no, it makes me COMFORTABLE. We get stronger by overcoming the challanges that face us every day. Of course it makes them an easy target to fail, makes them even a better testimony when they overcome!

Another thing to consider here: we seem to think it fine that a christian can have a career in anything else here, be it corporate, or whatever. But the minute it comes to music, all of a sudden it cannot be a career it must be a ministry. Surely that is between them and God? Although i have no doubt in my mind that POD are definately focusing on ministry, perhaps Creed and Lifehouse are focusing on career. Now although this doesn't mean they must deny their faith when asked about it, it does mean that they don't have to have a 10 minute sermon, or any type of alter call or whatever because its their CAREER. Perhaps they're called to minister as worship leaders in their church, but outside of that they have a normal job: and their job is to sell records. Like in the work place in your career you shouldn't compromise your faith, so if your career is music/entertainment, don't compromise your faith: live a testimony of lifestyle as we've agreed on above - perhaps God just wants to use you to effect those people in the industry, and not necessarily the listeners.

A concept thrown out to you guys. Any response?

Ryan

[MRGREEN23]

we seem to think it fine that a christian can have a career in anything else here, be it corporate, or whatever. But the minute it comes to music, all of a sudden it cannot be a career it must be a ministry
Um.....it IS a ministry.....It falls in line with preaching, or seminars, etc......It's ministry.......If it's a career, then it's done for the wrong reasons...period....

And if you don't agree with that, then there is no point in continuing this conversation.

Perhaps they're called to minister as worship leaders in their church, but outside of that they have a normal job: and their job is to sell records Disagree. In Christian music. Your goal should be to reach people with your music, and message, and the money you make is just the icing........

perhaps God just wants to use you to effect those people in the industry, and not necessarily the listeners
Perhaps.....doubt it, but some people can be called to "affect" their industry, and that is fine. But I don't think God would call someone to entertain people, without giving them something more.........


Mr. Green....23

[rainoflove]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps they're called to minister as worship leaders in their church, but outside of that they have a normal job: and their job is to sell records
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disagree. In Christian music. Your goal should be to reach people with your music, and message, and the money you make is just the icing........
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In full agreement with that of course. But why do most christian bands only play in churches or christian festivals, preaching to the saved? No, Matt Redman's calling is to grow christians, POD's is to reach. It would make no sense for Matt Redman to walk into a any form of club/non christian festival and sing "when the music fades." Whether it be a hardcore 'we hate the world' festival or a cute 'smell the daisies' worldly festival. It wouldn't work at all- thats not he's calling as a musician.
Just as much as would it make no sense for POD to get up and 'lead' worship in a church setting- by singing songs like 'youth of the nation.' Hardly a worship song, but live definately a performance one- one that can be done with passion and truth that makes them stand out. Something that says something to the listeners where they are, something they can connect with. But definately not used for corporate worship.

Delirious are showing this as a clear example: releasing both 'worship' albums and 'mainstream' ones. Their calling is two fold i believe, and i strongly believe that if they just keep their focus on God they will break through immensely. They have the passion and the skill.

No, to say music IS ONLY a ministry that MUST be used for preaching is to try and box something that is too diverse for that. Its like saying 'ban those instrumental panpipe hymnal cd's, because they don't mention the name of Christ- all they are is instrumental!' A little too over the top for me. Everything has its time and its place, and some are called to be 'prophets, some teachers' but not all. 'But eagerly desire the greater gifts.'

You cannot judge a ministry by its fruit, if that thing aint perhaps a ministry! POD's is a ministry, and the fruit i have heard/seen/read is enough for me to be satisfied- even if only one person got saved!! I don't believe Lifehouse as a band is a ministry, therefore i cannot judge it as such. I can only focus on the band as people- and their lifestyles are not mine to judge. Its good to at least have some positive vibes coming through my radio, instead of limp bizkit "break things" or Linkin Park "shut up when i'm talking to you." I understand lukewarmness aint good enough, but as i keep saying: thats between them and God, not us.

There of course has to be a scriptural way of sorting this out, and if i had my bible at work i'm sure i could find something that would make sense. Let us try and sort this out God's way and not by our own opinions.

Thats my last comment for today i think, almost home time!!!

Ryan

[MRGREEN23]

I understand lukewarmness aint good enough, but as i keep saying: thats between them and God, not us
Agreed
It would make no sense for Matt Redman to walk into a any form of club/non christian festival and sing "when the music fades."
I'd do it.....It's his music...
Just as much as would it make no sense for POD to get up and 'lead' worship in a church setting
in my opinion, every concert should have some time to do just that.......

Ever seen Third Day in concert? They rock....but yet, they have a time of worship.....Very intense......yet, very worship oriented....

[barberjo]

Have you ever seen POd in concert? If not, then how can you comment on what they do or don't do? You don't know! You don't believe the testimonies you hear. Exactly what kind of fruit are you looking for?

John

[ken]

<i>"Set Your Eyes To Zion"

Back in the day when man he paved the way
Fell in temptation, sin spread through the nation
Lead me salvation, and pierce the palms of holy hands
Who is the son of man? take me to the promised land
Where I and I free, Jah set my mind at ease
I stay cool in the shade even at 96?
You must believe and plant this seed of wisdom
Stick to the track and don't be trapped by Babylon

[chorus]
Set your eyes to Zion
Jah Jah people ride on

Forgive them Lord, for they not know
That what they do, people blame it on you
Can't understand why dem so mad
Dem heart get cold, empty with no soul
I've begun to search of One
Giver of life, I and I recognize
To be with you, forever I'll be with you
In paradise, Zion I set my eyes

[chorus]

Tell me Mr. Deadman?
Do you have the answer?
How do you get to Heaven?
Do you have the answer?
Hey Mr. Deadman
I'll tell you if you want to know,
How you can get to Heaven?
Believe in I Jah Jah son

[chorus]</i>

MRGREEN, I don't know about you but I think this song contains pretty much the message you look for.

Music is art. Whether it be worship music or any other. Music as art contains allusion and allegory. I think POD does a great job of using these forms. In my opinion if this song is performed at a concert, they have preached the gospel.

I carry this thing around in my jacket that contains what is called the 4 Spiritual Laws. I'm sure you have heard of this MRGREEN. I am also sure that you would agree it is one method of presenting the gospel.

By comparison:

<b>Law 1) God's love and plan for our lives:</b>
-Jah set my mind at ease
-To be with you, forever I'll be with you In paradise,

<b>Law 2) Man is sinful and separated from God.</b>
-Fell in temptation, sin spread through the nation

<b>Law 3) Jesus Christ is God's only provision for man's sin</b>
-Lead me salvation, and pierce the palms of holy hands Who is the son of man? take me to the promised land Where I and I free
-How you can get to Heaven? Believe in I Jah Jah son

<b>Law 4) We must each individually receive Christ as our Saviour and Lord.</b>
(again)
- How you can get to Heaven? Believe in I Jah Jah son.


There is no stretch here. The message hasn't changed. It's all there. The box, or presentation, is different, the message is the same.

There are other songs by POD that through allusion and allegory spread the salvation message. "Follow Me" is another off the top of my head. I don't have their latest album Sattelite so i can't speak for it. Not everyone of their songs is about salvation though, but not every one of Third Day's song are about salvation. In fact I looked over the Offerings cd and the name of Jesus is only used three times (twice in the same song). Thats three more times than the POD cd but still.

MRGREEN I am not sure what your knock is on this group, maybe it's the style you don't get into, and that's cool, but that's taste. And there's no accounting for it, if you know what I mean.:D I have not been to a POD concert so I don't know how they go, I doubt they do an alter call, but Third Day didn't either when I saw them live. I personally don't believe that type of presentation is necessary to spread the message.If a kid goes to a concert, hears the lyrics and it causes him to dig deeper and say what's that line mean or something along that nature, the seed has been planted and God has begun His work. If they don't hear (or get) the lyrics, then it is no different than sleeping through a pastors service on Sunday morning. The message was presented, but didn't take root.

I love ya' brother, I'm not trying to dog ya' at all. We all gotta do what we feel is right for our personal situation, but totally eliminating or discarding one approach is limiting God's ability to reach each person in a personal manner, the way (I feel) He wants to reach us all. POD delivers the goods. Maybe not to you, maybe not in a way you like, but they do. There is no doubt in my mind that God is pleased with their ministry.

Ok, I stand with flame resistant suit ready....
Not too hot OK:)

Peace

[RunningOnEmpty]

I'm not even gonna mention POD (or any other Christian/secular/debatable group). I think the underlying issue is this: Is every Christian musician called to use their music as a ministry? I still say no. Musical ability is (generally speaking) a natural gift - yes, given by God - but not a spiritual gift. The difference is that spiritual gifts must be used for the upbuilding of the kingdom and church specifically. Natural gifts are not limited to that criteria. Yes, everything we do as Christians should be for the upbuilding of the kingdom, but again I say, is every Christian called to preach, teach, evangelize, as a career? Absolutely not!

Side issue: so what if I'm a woman and a musician... am I allowed to be a minister to men simply because I am a musician? :D (Sorry ;) I just know this women in ministry thing is almost as touchy a subject as Christian/secular music!)

If we can't come to the understanding the musicians are just regular Christians with a specific natural talent who may or may not be called to career ministry, then I think I'm out of the debate cause my work here is done.

[MRGREEN23]

so what if I'm a woman and a musician... am I allowed to be a minister to men simply because I am a musician?
Boy, if that isn't another subject completely.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MRGREEN23]

If we can't come to the understanding the musicians are just regular Christians with a specific natural talent who may or may not be called to career ministry, then I think I'm out of the debate cause my work here is done

There's no point in my continuing this debate either....

It's obvious that no one is understanding my points....yet, quick to debate it....


Mr. Green....23

[RunningOnEmpty]

Sorry, Mr. Green! :) I don't think it is a subject change BECAUSE you seem to be saying (and I could possibly be missing your point) that EVERY musician should be a minister. I am a woman and a musician. So do I have to be a minister (by default)??

[RunningOnEmpty]

I'm really not arguing :D Just curious! ;)

[MRGREEN23]

I am saying that yes, you are a minister, and no, I do not have a problem with a woman ministering to anyone, as long as she is not the head of the body, as the Bible says.


Mr. Green.....23

[Brent]

Originally posted by ken
Not everyone of their songs is about salvation though, but not every one of Third Day's song are about salvation. In fact I looked over the Offerings cd and the name of Jesus is only used three times (twice in the same song). Thats three more times than the POD cd but still.Well, I'm not getting into this debate because the state that it's in now is pointless because it's just back and forth with no one agreeing. But anyway....just to clarify, POD uses the name of Jesus many times on their albums....even in the song that you quoted yourself. "Jah" is the Rastafarian term for God or Jesus. The word is used numerous times throughout POD's lyrics.

[RunningOnEmpty]

OK, you're right. I am a minister. (we agreed!!!) But I am prayerfully considering entering the industry as a "secular" artist. Mostly because I'm extremely disillusioned with the REALLY commercialized Christian music industry that is itself pitifully secular.

[MRGREEN23]

OK, you're right. I am a minister. (we agreed!!!) But I am prayerfully considering entering the industry as a "secular" artist. Mostly because I'm extremely disillusioned with the REALLY commercialized Christian music industry that is itself pitifully secular
Finally, that is my point through this whole debate...(guess I'm back in it, for a little while).........

To me, if it is Christian music, then there is a responsibility there to be "Christian", which means, "Christ like"......

There is nothing more frustrating than going to a "Christian" concert, and hearing some great music, and then they say, "If you are not saved, you need to be... God bless, have a great night" and they walk off the stage.....that bites....

And that is my point.....Music, in the Christian rhelm, is a ministry, not a profession.......people need to realize that.....You have a responsibility to minister to people through your songs, and then with your words. ......

Anyway, off my soapbox, because as Brent said, "because the state that it's in now is pointless because it's just back and forth with no one agreeing"......

Mr. Green.....23

[ken]

<i>Originally posted by Brent </i><b>
Well, I'm not getting into this debate because the state that it's in now is pointless because it's just back and forth with no one agreeing. But anyway....just to clarify, POD uses the name of Jesus many times on their albums....even in the song that you quoted yourself. "Jah" is the Rastafarian term for God or Jesus. The word is used numerous times throughout POD's lyrics.</b>

Interesting, I was under the impression "Jah" was meant as the "Father" manifestation of the trinity. as in "Jehovah". Not the Son, or Messiah. Agreed they are in tri-unity, one and the same, but apparently I need to research a bit more. Thanks for the info though.

[RunningOnEmpty]

AHA! A point of total agreement! Christian musicians in the "Christian realm" should definately take their calling more seriously or get out! I haven't seen fruit in quite a few "Christian" bands (again, refuse to name names) and it is very discouraging. Especially if they truly claim to be a Christian band.

[MRGREEN23]

If you agree, then what in the world are we debating about...??????




Green

[RunningOnEmpty]

Bands that are made up of some Christian people, but who aren't on a Christian label or claim to be in the "Christian realm". That's what I was debating anyway. :)

[Jael]

Interesting, I was under the impression "Jah" was meant as the "Father" manifestation of the trinity. as in "Jehovah". Not the Son, or Messiah. Agreed they are in tri-unity, one and the same, but apparently I need to research a bit more. Thanks for the info though.
Easy Bud. Don't get your pantyhose in a bunch! This is what I mean when I say that people like to argue! Who cares what the EXACT terminoligy for 'Jah' is? In this situation there was no need for that explination! NO NEED! Ya'll love to argue! And then by saying "I need to do more reseach"? That sacarstic comment shouldn't even be posted! your being an a** and trying to be nice at the same time. C'mon nobody here is stupid! These debate forums make me laugh! Guys come in and start a topic then argue on it, and in the end people are arguing about something different altogether! Stay on topic! If you want to correct