Bob Marley

[nestamanchris]

C'mon people, you all know Bob Marley was the man, admit it. Seriously, though, I've found his music to be eye-opening over the years in many cultural and spiritual ways. A large portion of his lyrics come from the Bible (trust me I know a good 99% of his lyrics by heart).

Yes, he did smoke marijuana and was a devout Rastafarian most of his adult life, but WAIT... a little known fact is that he repented and accepted Christ a few months before his death. It's an amazing story; PM me if you ever want the rundown.

Anyhow, just thought we couldn't have a secular music forum w/o a Bob Marley thread. Feel free to say you love him, say you hate him or ask me a question about him. Just wondering what you guys think. Peace.

[nestamanchris]

Whoops, I meant to get rid of the "(interesting stuff inside)" part... I'm a moron.

[bleachedrhino]

I knew he was a Rastafarian...but I never knew that he accepted Christ...that's kool! :cool:
I'm not really into Reggae....but Bob Marley is ok....kinda like you with Punk...:D

[ChrisPeeper]

I love reggae/island music. Steel Drums are freakin' sweet. I want one of those shirts w/ that famous picture of him on it. But now that I think about it, most people who wear that shirt are just saying "I smoke weed" and not "I like Bob Marley's music".

[Scott]

another little known fact is that rastafarians have largely Christian beliefs, apart from the pot thing and the fact they believed that a Nigerian king was Jesus coming back for his saints ( you know the rapture and all that ). Which is obviously crazy talk. His name escapes me though. Most of them however, were only in it for the legalised pot.

[nestamanchris]

Yeah, you're right. The king was Haillie Selassie of Ethiopia and they thought something to the effect that he was a reincarnation of Jesus, which is obviously wrong. Selassie himself said that he wasn't any more than a man and helped to start the Ethiopian Orthodox Church to refute the Rastafarian belief. You're right, Scottyboy, aside from that and the pot thing their belief system is along the lines of Christianity. Marley was baptised into the E.O.Church 7 months before his death.

Hey, thanks to whoever edited the title of the thread :D .

[nestamanchris]

Originally posted by ChrisPeeper
I love reggae/island music. Steel Drums are freakin' sweet. I want one of those shirts w/ that famous picture of him on it. But now that I think about it, most people who wear that shirt are just saying "I smoke weed" and not "I like Bob Marley's music".

Yeah, it's true. I have a shirt with him on it, but it's just him playing a guitar. A lot of Marley fans just like him because of the weed connection, it's kinda sad.

[bleachedrhino]

Hmmmm...that is kinda sad...:eek:
There's a kid in my school who used to wear a Bob Marley shirt...but he listened to Country music and did not like Bob Marley.....:cool:

[Scott]

I edited it, not a prob.

Also, a lot of people wear the tshirts, but only as a fashion statement, cos raggae is cool, generally. Bob more so. which annoys.

[XxBaTmaNxX]

ahhh...reggae yes
just chill just chill

[Pick it up!]

bob marley is cool. i've got 3 of his cds. good to listen to in the summer around the pool.

[nestamanchris]

True, Marley's a definite summer thing (or a Christmas '01 thing the way the temp's been around here). I have somewhere around 26 Marley cds :rolleyes: . Yes, I have issues.

[bleachedrhino]

:eek: 26 cds??!! :eek:
wow! I didn't know anyone could have 26 cd's! WOW! :eek:

[freeatlast]

marley is great...
i'd like to hear more about his conversion...it always made me sad listening to marley knowing he was very spiritual but the rast thing would keep him from heaven...in fact it bothers me all the time that people are gonna go to hell...there is only "one way", its a shame so mny people with good intentions are lost, but that's the way its gotta be...and the song get up stand up is real bad theologically...yeah, i gotta go to sleep...

peace

[freeatlast]

oh by the way...i have at least one hundred cd's of phish most all the studios and lots of live shows...can i get a wow for that?!?!?

you got any live marley nestamanchris? i don't but i always was meaning to get some, i think i know were i can...

[nestamanchris]

Man, that IS a lot of Phish cd's. I have 6 of theirs. Anyhow, if you want some live Marley either get "Babylon By Bus" or "Live"... You can d/l a live version of almost any Marley song in existence and there are a lot of imports/bootlegs out there, too (obviously I have a few), but they're more expensive usually (around $40 for on cd).

[Jfreak]

Bob Marley !! Awesome "I shot the Sherrif, but I did not shoot the deputy". Also Scotty boys comment "Jesus coming back for his saints ( you know the rapture and all that ). Which is obviously crazy talk." I happen to believe in the rapture, but this is not a debate forum. so.......

[Scott]

the fact they believed that a Nigerian king was Jesus coming back for his saints ( you know the rapture and all that ). Which is obviously crazy talk

please read the whole thing, :)

[Scott]

i'm with you on this one Jfreak, yay rapture!

[Jfreak]

Sorry about the misinterprentation dude :-)...

[Scott]

not a problem man

[BigDaddy]

YES!!! I was getting worried. I went through five pages without seeing anything about Marley and then BOOM! Thank you nestamanchris! I haven't been into Bob Marley all that long but I've always loved reggae. Usually when I hear him talking about "Jah" (which is in the bible) and spiritual stuff I relate it to God, the real one. It's not that hard considering a good majority of his lyrics come from the bible.

Give us the teachings of His Majesty
We no want no devil philosophy

[Jael]

My parents are West Indian (Caribbean,Antigua) So Bob Marley is no stranger to me. Well kinda. He was never really popular anywhere but Jamaica in my parents time. But he is great. He brought alot of change to the whole Caribbean as a whole. His guitar skills were never great, but he made up for it lyricaly. I mean, he could write a song.

[BigDaddy]

His guitar skills never needed to be great. It's reggae, the emphasis is usually on the bass and the drums. The guitar is usually just there to keep time

[Ali4God]

I just wish he weren't so connected to drug use. Typically, at least where I live, if you have a thing for Marley, then you are automatically labeled a stoner... no good!
*Alison*

[nestamanchris]

Originally posted by Ali4God
I just wish he weren't so connected to drug use. Typically, at least where I live, if you have a thing for Marley, then you are automatically labeled a stoner... no good!
*Alison*

I'm with you on that one. A lot of people think that, but that's their problem. He was a great songwriter who happened to be involved in a culture (rastafarian) which looked towards marijuana as a meditational supplement, so to speak...

Oh, someone PM'ed me asking about an earlier post in the thread where I said Marley was converted... Here's a link to the website where I found this information...

http://www.christafari.com/en/faq/detail/urrx/Bob+Marley.html

(hope that works)... The only thing I have to say about it is that I researched the Ethiopian Orthodox Church into which Marley was baptised several months before his death, and they are a Christian church. They're rooted African culture and do have some different traditions but it is a Christian church.

[Scott]

oh, I know what you mean ali, everyone thinks I change from being a stoner to being a manic depressive psychopath. Ah well, who cares what they think?

[Ali4God]

Funny how the type of music you listen to automatically puts you into a social sub-culture... stoner, depressive, hippy... its killin' me!
*Alison*

[FaLa]

Bob Marley was great. I didn't know all that about the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, that's really cool. I wouldn't say that the Emperor and the pot thing are the only major differences between Rastafarians and Christianity though, there are many others. I don't know much offhand but I have read a lot about the religion. I know the reason they have dreadlocks is because they take the Old Testament laws and commands 100% literally. There is a verse that says not to wash, cut, or comb your hair. If you do that then eventually you will have dreadlocks. But anyways...........

[TheImprinted]

awesome! my roommate got me hooked on Bob Marley (we listen to her Marley tape all the time), and it's exciting to learn that he accepted Christ! It gives his songs even more meaning to me!

[perhaps]

WE BE JAMMIN!

[nestamanchris]

Originally posted by TheImprinted
awesome! my roommate got me hooked on Bob Marley (we listen to her Marley tape all the time), and it's exciting to learn that he accepted Christ! It gives his songs even more meaning to me!

Well, most of the songs are derived, quoted or influenced by Scripture. Even though he was a Rasta during his career he still relied heavily on the Bible for lyrical inspiration.

[Scott]

i think that's already been established.....

read the whole thread ;)

[nestamanchris]

I started the thread and made most of those points ;) . Just reitterating.

[Scott]

yeah, I was kiddin man, thats why the ;)

[guyforGod]

topparoo because its been a while

:thumbsup:


Bob Marley = good stuff


just got this beaut of a cd today http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000669JL.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

[nestamanchris]

Many people will fight you down,
When you see Jah light.
Let me tell you if you're not wrong,
Then everything is all right.
So we gonna walk, children,
Through the roads of creation
We the generation
Trod through great tribulation.
In this Exodus, all right
Movement of Jah people

:thumbsup:

[Scott]

You know, I'm sick of Marley.

He kinda just plays the same song again and again...

[Jared]

You know, I'm sick of Marley.

He kinda just plays the same song again and again...
That's exactly why I've never been able to appreciate Marley.

Perhaps I'm dead wrong. Misguided. Missing the point.
I'm not convinced that he really stretched Reggae's musical borders. Great lyricist, Political activist, human being. But the music just never did it for me.

[guyforGod]

Perhaps I'm dead wrong. Misguided. Missing the point.


yeah pretty much....


but whatever

[nestamanchris]

You know, I'm sick of Marley.

He kinda just plays the same song again and again...

That's exactly why I've never been able to appreciate Marley.

Perhaps I'm dead wrong. Misguided. Missing the point.
I'm not convinced that he really stretched Reggae's musical borders. Great lyricist, Political activist, human being. But the music just never did it for me.


First off it's not like Marley's writing new music, he's been dead over 22 years. The reason you hear the 'same song' is because reggae, which Marley arguably perfected the art of, follows a cyclical, highly syncopated groove that lends itself to native African beats. Reggae is rooted in Africa, lyrically, spiritually and musically. Look at the pan-African movement of Marcus Garvey and compare it to songs such as 'Africa Unite' and 'Babylon System'. Marley's music is a pure expression of the struggle of blacks in the west. White people aren't supposed to "get it". The creativity of reggae isn't about stretching the boundaries of time signatures, distorted guitars or drummers using struttos but purely about expressing black life and the struggle to free one's repressed selfhood.

I highly doubt anyone here's listened to every Marley and the Wailers album in order of release, but that's expected. 'Legend' and songs on tv commercials don't fully represent what Marley was about. The same could be said for any artist. There is a distinctive growth in Marley's music over the years, all the while maintaining the integrity of the groove. A similar groove can be found in jazz and R&B, heck even rap. The point of reggae could be said to free oneself through music.

[Yojimbo]

I'd like to see some confirmation of this story that Bob Marley accepted Christ. It sounds like an urban legend, kind of like how Darwin supposedly accepted Christ.

[nestamanchris]

I'd like to see some confirmation of this story that Bob Marley accepted Christ. It sounds like an urban legend, kind of like how Darwin supposedly accepted Christ.

Let's not compare Marley to Darwin.

http://www.christafari.com/faq/78da334a040000c70094/Bob+Marley.html

I can also refer you to Catch a Fire: The Life of Bob Marley p. 310

"... Unbeknownst to the Twelve Tribes, Rita had Bob baptized in the Ethiopian Orthodox Church on November 4, 1980. Taking the name Berhane Selassie, he had become a Christian Rasta."

The bias in keeping Marley's aura as a Rasta is seen in this statement. The Ethiopian Orthodox Church doesn't believe in the holiness of Haille Selassie, unlike Rastafarians. While they're far from the reformed tradition, the following is from a website outlining their main beliefs:

"The formula for the Trinity is this, "Worship we the Father, worship we the Son, worship we the Holy Spirit, three in one and one in three".
God is one in Godhead, Three in Persons, in the name of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The Holy Trinity has no beginning and will exist for ever without end. In the Trinity there is none that precedes and none that follows; none that is elder and none that is younger, none that is ruler and none that is subject; the Three are One, in all things equal (Jn. 10: 30; 1 Jn. 5: 7.). In nature, in authority, in Lordship, in Godhead, in Divinity, in creating, in saving, in giving, in taking away, in breadth, in fulness, in length, They are One."

- http://www.eotc.faithweb.com/orth.html#DOCTRINES


In conclusion, Marley was baptised into the Ethiopian Orthodox Church after accepting the tenants of the church. His funeral couldn't have taken place in the church if he hadn't converted. IMO, this has no bearing on his contributions to music, but reveals an interesting aspect of his faith that is often glazed over by history.

[Yojimbo]

What happened after Marley converted? And sorry to sound skeptical, but I've heard too many "Oh, didn't you know [insert big star name] converted to Christ?" stories that are highly suspectible. R. Kelly, for example, "converted" a few years back...but I don't think you'll find many a church who will claim him now.

[nestamanchris]

What happened after Marley converted? And sorry to sound skeptical, but I've heard too many "Oh, didn't you know [insert big star name] converted to Christ?" stories that are highly suspectible. R. Kelly, for example, "converted" a few years back...but I don't think you'll find many a church who will claim him now.

He died a few months later. He'd been hospital ridden with cancer for several months up to that point.

As a serious Marley fan, I was incredibly skeptical when I came across that first website, but after some research it turned out to be the truth.

[perhaps]

they believed that a Nigerian king was Jesus coming back for his saints ( you know the rapture and all that ). Which is obviously crazy talk.
I am very disappointed in you, Scott. YOU MUST REPENT NOW!!!

[benj]

Rastafarianism is pretty crazy... I suspect Amanda is in it for the tokin' aspect. :( She says "mon" all the time now like she is "in the know." She is even trying to sport dreads... it is getting old.

[guyforGod]

a canadian rasta? now i've seen it all! :eek:

[Scott]

First off it's not like Marley's writing new music, he's been dead over 22 years

What, so that excuses him wringing the same formula dry when he was alive?

White people aren't supposed to "get it". The creativity of reggae isn't about stretching the boundaries of time signatures, distorted guitars or drummers using struttos but purely about expressing black life and the struggle to free one's repressed selfhood.

What has this got to do with what I said? You don't need to stretch anything to write songs that don't all employ the same tricks again and again.

Also, don't you think this is a touch racist? White people aren't meant to get it. If white people said something like that about IDM or something, there would be uproar.

[nestamanchris]

What, so that excuses him wringing the same formula dry when he was alive?

You don't need to stretch anything to write songs that don't all employ the same tricks again and again.

As I said, there was a clear development in his music over the years. Naturally, the 'hits' were similar, you have to go beyond some of the more popular songs. Compare songs such as Rastaman Chant ('73), 'Rebel Music' ('75), 'Time Will Tell' ('78) and 'Wake Up and Live' ('79). Reggae (r)evolves around the groove (what you call the formula). Lose that and it ceases to be reggae. Even 'Redemption song' contains it. Same thing could be said for the blues.

Edit: His Island records releases spanned from '73 to '80. Who knows what music he'd be making if he was still around, or at least relased albums for more than 7 years. Listen to anything prior to the 'Catch a Fire' debut in '73 and you'll really see how the music evolved.

Also, don't you think this is a touch racist? White people aren't meant to get it. If white people said something like that about IDM or something, there would be uproar

I wasn't trying to imply any racist connotations, here. Reggae music was about a cultural struggle that white people (ex. myself) can't fully comprehend b/c the historical experience isn't the same. That's not to say that I can't fully experience and appreciate the music, it's simply that I identify with it on an entirely different level than the songwriter.

[guyforGod]

give it up chris, the CGR elite are clearly against us here, thus Marley is no longer any good. throw out your cd collection and buy yourself some radiohead and all will be well. :)

[Scott]

What, does that snide little comment automatically win you a debate? I think not.

Reggae (r)evolves around the groove (what you call the formula

I'm referring more to top line melody, lyrics and song structure, really. Which I'm sure you'll agree, didn't alter hugely.

[Adam]

give it up chris, the CGR elite are clearly against us here, thus Marley is no longer any good. throw out your cd collection and buy yourself some radiohead and all will be well.

Enough with the comments and snide remarks. This is a warning.

[Jared]

yeah pretty much....


but whatever
Has anyone ever hinted that you might be neanderthal?



Meanwhile, nestamanchris offers some intelligent conversation to the elitist scum. I acknowledge that Marley was a great reggae artist, singer, and songwriter. But I'm still unconvinced that he pushed reggae's boundaries as far as he is often credited with.

[guyforGod]

Has anyone ever hinted that you might be neanderthal?



no, not recently...

mods, does this qualify as a "snide remark?"

[benj]

I am drawing a line right here, guys. No more jabs on either side please, it discredits the discussion.

[Jared]

Forgive me, guyforgod.
I am at fault.









...but it was provoked! provoked i tell you!

[guyforGod]

Meanwhile, nestamanchris offers some intelligent conversation to the elitist scum. I acknowledge that Marley was a great reggae artist, singer, and songwriter. But I'm still unconvinced that he pushed reggae's boundaries as far as he is often credited with.

Well what exactly do I need to say to convince you? You say you don't think he is influential and said you might be wrong. You say you don't "get it." Well, I guess I "get it." I said, sorry you are wrong because you said yo umight be. I don't feel the need to convince at all. If you cannot agree with the consensus opinion of countless musicians, critics, etc that Marley was influential and stretched reggae, then nothing I can say will convince you. A few years ago Time Magazine named Exodus the most important album of the 20th century. If that doesn't work, then whatever. Musicians such as Eric Clapton have collaborated with Marley on songs and come away talking about how amazing he is on all fronts. IF that doesn't work, then whatever. Hip-hop today owes much to raggae and the works of Marley, but if you think you need to go against "the norm" and say he didn't do so, then go ahead.

no need to apologize...

[nestamanchris]

I'm referring more to top line melody, lyrics and song structure, really. Which I'm sure you'll agree, didn't alter hugely.

I agree that there certainly is a formula, but the formula is reggae. Reggae is characterized by the "cha-chink" rhythm (as Marley would call it). Marley wasn't attempting to revolutionize music and bring about a new style (which he clearly did do with helping to bring the fledgling music of ska into the medium of reggae). His goals were simply to express the plight, as he saw it, of African descendants in the west (particularly Jamaica). His desire for the Rastafarian views to be heard also resonates throughout his career. To produce 9 albums in 7 years and have the impact on music that he did is nothing short of phenomenal. Bob wasn't an envelope pusher so much with the music, but primarily with the message, which is clearly what it was about for him.

As Ben Harper has said, "simplicity is the greatest form of complexity." Marley's music was simply complex by taking the formula and bringing it to a higher level. If Marley was alive today he'd much rather be remembered for his message and purpose than his music. I feel that he's one of the greatest songwriters who's ever lived, but that's an opinion. We know what those are like and everyone has one.

[Scott]

A few years ago Time Magazine named Exodus the most important album of the 20th century.

To be fair, that's about as relevant as reading the movie reviews in FHM. Time don't matter in the music world.

I agree that there certainly is a formula, but the formula is reggae

You mention that reggae is about the rhythm, which doesn't answer the points I made. The lyrics are all rather similar, with overly simple rhymes sprinkled liberally.

The top line melodies, while much stronger than any other part of Marley's music, often fell into a few distinct categories.

[guyforGod]

To be fair, that's about as relevant as reading the movie reviews in FHM. Time don't matter in the music world.

sure it doesn't.... it counts for absolutly nothing, right? :rolleyes:

[nestamanchris]

You mention that reggae is about the rhythm, which doesn't answer the points I made. The lyrics are all rather similar, with overly simple rhymes sprinkled liberally.

The top line melodies, while much stronger than any other part of Marley's music, often fell into a few distinct categories.

If there's only one point I make in this dialogue, it should be that reggae, particularly for Marley, was about the message of the music more than anything else. The music was the vessel; the message her cargo.

There are undoubtedly "distinct categories" in reggae. I could go drone on, but is it really necessary? It's clear that my main point has been overlooked time and time again. If you can't sympathize with the message of reggae, you're better off to refrain from listening. Scott has spoken. Marley is overrated. :rolleyes:

[Jared]

Well what exactly do I need to say to convince you?
Tell me why reggae is different today because of Bob Marley. Give me an example of how the genre was improved upon by Mr. Marley.
Don't give me crap about political activism and spreading reggae to the rest of the world; how did the genre actually benefit from his existence?


You say you don't think he is influential and said you might be wrong. You say you don't "get it." Well, I guess I "get it." I said, sorry you are wrong because you said yo umight be.
I am proud to be associated with the enlightened guyforGod.


I don't feel the need to convince at all. If you cannot agree with the consensus opinion of countless musicians, critics, etc that Marley was influential and stretched reggae, then nothing I can say will convince you.
I could care less about countless musicians and critics. I want your thoughts. Do you ever think, or do you count on countless musicians and critics to think for you?


A few years ago Time Magazine named Exodus the most important album of the 20th century. If that doesn't work, then whatever. Musicians such as Eric Clapton have collaborated with Marley on songs and come away talking about how amazing he is on all fronts. IF that doesn't work, then whatever. Hip-hop today owes much to raggae and the works of Marley, but if you think you need to go against "the norm" and say he didn't do so, then go ahead.

That's it. I'm saying this to go against the norm. I'm just trying to be a rebel.
But I don't rebel- I'm an elitist. You should be rebelling against me.
Quit copping out and give me an answer. If his accomplishments are so far reaching, it should not be that difficult to point out one of them.

[Scott]

If you can't sympathize with the message of reggae, you're better off to refrain from listening. Scott has spoken. Marley is overrated.

Oooh, look Mummy, more silly little comments from someone without a point to make....

[guyforGod]

Tell me why reggae is different today because of Bob Marley. Give me an example of how the genre was improved upon by Mr. Marley.


The very fact that there was ever reggae music out in the eye of the mainstream public is proof positive of the influence of Marley. Quick, name me another raggae musician (outside of the Marley family) that anyone in the general public cares about. (or, do a google search and try to find some...). If you are going to claim Marley to not be the most influential man in reggae please proove your knowledge by naming who you would claim to be that person.


Don't give me crap about political activism and spreading reggae to the rest of the world; how did the genre actually benefit from his existence?


Please explain how spreading the genre to the rest of the world isn't improving upon it. If a musician is able to make people in a given location take notice of a musical genre that had very limited appeal before this time, then isn't the genre better off as a whole?

I could care less about countless musicians and critics. I want your thoughts. Do you ever think, or do you count on countless musicians and critics to think for you?


No jared, i never think at all. how'd you guess? :rolleyes:

Coming from someone who really never even tried to prove their point in this thread, I find this comment laughable. You questioned Marley's influence so I gave a few examples of what the music community as a whole has said about him. If an artist has an influence, of course people are going to talk about it. I only mentioned the critics to show that my thoughts on the matter are not unique to me alone. Had I just said that I "feel like" it's good music, you would rip me for being subjective. So now that I try to defer to the consensus of the critical community (lets not forget the lifetime achievement award he got at the Grammy Awards in 2000) and you blast me for not thinking. Gosh I love debating you Jared, its just such a rational conversation.

That's it. I'm saying this to go against the norm. I'm just trying to be a rebel.
But I don't rebel- I'm an elitist. You should be rebelling against me.
Quit copping out and give me an answer. If his accomplishments are so far reaching, it should not be that difficult to point out one of them.

You are missing the point (which you seem to be quite good at). You are saying that Marley was not influential when pretty much everyone else says that he is. You have not given reasons why he was not influential, but merely said that you don't "get it." If you don't "get it," you just don't. I find this comment increasingly stupid, as you and scott continue to ask Chris and I to pick gnat s*** out of pepper. I was not looking down at you nor making a snide remark (you have already proven yourself to be the king of those anyways).

[Jared]

The very fact that there was ever reggae music out in the eye of the mainstream public is proof positive of the influence of Marley.
I didn't say he had a negative influence. What are you talking about?


Quick, name me another raggae musician (outside of the Marley family) that anyone in the general public cares about. (or, do a google search and try to find some...).
Marley is the most recognized reggae artist. It doesn't mean he is the most influential. You are the one missing the point of my question. How has the music, not the general public, benefited from his artistry? What did he do with reggae that had never been done before?


If you are going to claim Marley to not be the most influential man in reggae please proove your knowledge by naming who you would claim to be that person.
You act as if I don't listen to reggae. Any true fan of reggae can name plenty of musicians who were decisively better and more impactful.
Joe Higgs and Alton Ellis are the most obvious examples.


Please explain how spreading the genre to the rest of the world isn't improving upon it. If a musician is able to make people in a given location take notice of a musical genre that had very limited appeal before this time, then isn't the genre better off as a whole?
No. The world is better off as a whole for recognizing a certain undiscovered genre.
Why was reggae changed forever because of Marley?


No jared, i never think at all. how'd you guess? :rolleyes:
I deduced this simply by reading your inane puppet-ramblings.


Coming from someone who really never even tried to prove their point in this thread, I find this comment laughable.
Why do I have to prove a point when I am asking you a question?


You questioned Marley's influence so I gave a few examples of what the music community as a whole has said about him. If an artist has an influence, of course people are going to talk about it. I only mentioned the critics to show that my thoughts on the matter are not unique to me alone. Had I just said that I "feel like" it's good music, you would rip me for being subjective. So now that I try to defer to the consensus of the critical community (lets not forget the lifetime achievement award he got at the Grammy Awards in 2000) and you blast me for not thinking.
There is a stark contrast between referring me to someone else's thoughts and objective thinking. I suggest you learn the difference before you try to point out my supposed hypocrisy.


Gosh I love debating you Jared, its just such a rational conversation.
Isn't it though?


You are missing the point (which you seem to be quite good at). You are saying that Marley was not influential when pretty much everyone else says that he is. You have not given reasons why he was not influential, but merely said that you don't "get it." If you don't "get it," you just don't. I find this comment increasingly stupid, as you and scott continue to ask Chris and I to pick gnat s*** out of pepper. I was not looking down at you nor making a snide remark (you have already proven yourself to be the king of those anyways).
Hahaha. First of all, I have only said "I don't get it" once. Why do you find this comment increasingly stupid? You make me laugh, little grasshopper.

I can't believe that you still don't understand my question. As Chris has already pointed out, Marley has done nothing new for reggae. He popularized it. I will credit Marley with that.
If you insist that Marley is so influential, I beg of you once more to show me. Musically. Apart from popularity, the public's general consensus, and religious messages.

Oh yeah- no need for profanity, oh Godly one. :kangel:

[nowaverocker]

This is silly. Pre-death conversion? I seriously doubt it. But...

Don't try to give Rastafarianism any footing...it STOLE elements of Judiasm and Christianity. Bob is his early life flirted with Christianity (listen to his early ska songs with the first incarnation of the Wailers) but quickly embraced Rastafarianism, a tragic belief system. Bob himself rejected Christianity. Listen to lyrics in "Get Up, Stand Up":

We sick an' tired of-a your ism-skism game
Dyin' 'n' goin' to heaven in-a Jesus' name, Lord.
We know when we understand:
Almighty God is a living man.

Most Marley scholars concur that this was his condemnation of Christians who did not accept that Jah (by the way, POD fans, using this as a name of the True God is misleading and results in confusion among non-believers about your beliefs...oh that using dubious terms was not so trendy among Christians) was embodying a living, breathing African politician.

In the same song he condemns an eternal perspective of the Judeo-Christian perspective by saying:

Most people think great God will come from the sky
Take away ev'rything, and make ev'rybody feel high
But if you know what life is worth
You would look for yours on earth
And now you see the light
You stand up for your right, yeah!

This is not to say that I do not enjoy Bob Marley. On the contrary, I am a huge fan of reggae in general and own most of Marley's work. But I do not try to elevate my appreciation of Bob's music to the level of viewing him as a wise follower of the Lord. He has much to say in his music and much wisdom. But just as U2's "Wake Up, Dead Man" undercuts their "Christian" leanings with its cruel message, Bob made clear that he was a Rastaman, not a Christian. For all his talk of betterment and for his truly spiritual approach to life and passion (that can motivate and inspire us), there are his cries to the false god Jah and his use of marijuana in the face of it being illegal. I can admire the passion of Bono without condoning his Christ-bashing. I can only hope and pray that Bob (and Bono, in the case of U2) did receive the saving grace of Christ. To God be the glory if he did and I sincerely hope he did. But I have heard TOO MANY dubious deathbed conversion stories told by Christians who want to claim another celebrity into the flock.

[Scott]

Nice post, nowaverocker.

[Jared]

I can admire the passion of Bono without condoning his Christ-bashing.
Bono? Christ-bashing? I've heard him criticize Christians on numerous occasions, but never Christ. I've only heard him speak positively of Jesus.

Whatchoo talkin' bout, Willy?

[nowaverocker]

:D Major props for the Diff'rent Strokes reference!

I will let Bono's words speak for him:

"Wake Up, Dead Man"

Jesus, Jesus help me
I'm alone in this world
And a f***ed-up world it is too.

Tell me, tell me the story
The one about eternity
And the way it's all gonna be.

Wake up, wake up dead man
Wake up, wake up dead man.

Jesus, I'm waiting here, boss
I know you're looking out for us
But maybe your hands aren't free.

Your Father, He made the world in seven
He's in charge of heaven.
Will you put a word in for me?

Wake up, wake up dead man
Wake up, wake up dead man.

Listen to the words they'll tell you what to do
Listen over the rhythm that's confusing you
Listen to the reed in the saxophone
Listen over the hum of the radio
Listen over the sound of blades in rotation
Listen through the traffic and circulation
Listen as hope and peace try to rhyme
Listen over marching bands playing out their time.

Wake up, wake up dead man
Wake up, wake up dead man.

Jesus, were you just around the corner?
Did you think to try and warn her?
Were you working on something new?
If there's an order in all of this disorder
Is it like a tape recorder?
Can we rewind it just once more?

Wake up, wake up dead man
Wake up, wake up dead man.
Wake up, wake up dead man.

[Jared]

I have felt like that on many occasions.

Bono proudly proclaims his Christian faith, but clarifies that he has more questions than answers. I don't think it's fair to discredit his entire Christianity on a single song. Or a few songs, for that matter.

Anywho, this isn't the U2 thread. Sorry, mods.

[Scott]

I think Bono just has the courage or whatever to put the kind of doubts we all have into songs that will be heard by millions.

Unless we don't all have doubts about whether we are Christian, and stuff?