What is Wicca?

[kwikemartownr]

What exactly is Wicca?

I know nothing about it except one of my friends has been dabbing herself in it. She says that she's gonna be a "good witch" and is only going to cast "good spells" and other strange witchcraft-related things.

I'm very troubled by what's happening and more over can't say anything cause I know nothing about this Wicca thing.

So any info would be greatly welcomed.

steve

[Luke]

I think Jerry knows a good bit about it, but I don't know enough to be any real help. My knowledge is extremely rudimentary.

I'm going to move this to Apologetics since it deals with a different religion.

[DreamChaser]

Heya,

From what I know, Wicca is basically a witchcraft organization...

[Superman]

Originally posted by GarthArkSmash
Heya,

From what I know, Wicca is basicallt a witchcraft organization...

Yeah. Its got some new age in it... But they are "good" witches.

Witchcraft is an abomination.

[DreamChaser]

Heya,

Yeah, I agree, just sick, and evil.

[Ely]

i used to be a wiccan. it has alot to do with nature and what not.

[Karen M]

>>>Witchcraft is an abomination......Yeah, I agree, just sick, and evil.<<<

Just because someone doesn't believe like you do does not make their beliefs sick or evil. On the contrary, Wicca is one of the most peaceful religions in the world.

[DreamChaser]

Heya,

Galatians 5:19-12 (NIV)


The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery;
idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions

Me- That is a good reason to say its sick and evil.

[JerryLove]

Wicca is a modern religion based on a mix of modern and old traditions. Wicca is one of a group of "neopagan" religions.

Wicca can trace it's modern roots back to a man naged Gerald Gardner, who is the founder of one of Wicca's main branches (Gardinian Wicca) back in the 1940s (though records of the practice can also be found in a book by Charles Leland circa 1899 "The Gospel of Witches").

Wiccans believe in two dieties; the three-aspected moon goddess (maiden, mother, and crone) and in the single-aspected son god, who goes through a yearly cycle of death and rebirth. They are generally a naturalistic religion, they believe in the power of nature, and the power of energy (expressed through spellcraft).

Wicca also holds to two basic principles. The threefold law states that whatever you put out (good or bad) comes back to you threeforld, this is considered the karmatic nature of the universe. Most Wiccan's also follow the Wiccan reed (the one commandment, if you like) which is "Do what you will, be it harm none". Or translated "Don't cause harm", this being the one "evil" act.

Is that a decent primer? Or are you looking for something in specific?

[Travis]

I would not call it sick, as Karen said it is quite peaceful. The thing is, it is not of God and it is wrong.

[OnEaglesWings]

Originally posted by PleasuresPain
I would not call it sick, as Karen said it is quite peaceful. The thing is, it is not of God and it is wrong.
I agree...from what I know, Wiccans tend to be tolerant and I think that at least most of them ARE peaceful, and only cast good spells. But they believe in power derived from nature, and, even more, they believe that they can use that power kind of whenever they please as they gain more experience. This is kind of like elevating yourself to God's level...which is wrong.

[Phil]

It's still witchcraft, which is evil, no matter how "peaceful" it may be.

[JerryLove]

It's still witchcraft, which is evil, no matter how "peaceful" it may be. The way you phrase that appears to be intended to make people think of the common definition of evil (bad) rather than yours (what God doesn't want).

Even accepting that it is "evil"; the intent is not evil. Wiccans are by-and-large a very nice and kind group. They don't see harm in what you percieve as evil. This is simply because they don't believe in the same thing you do.

When a voice systhasizer reads a curse (blaspheming), is the synthasizer evil? No? Wh not? Because it doesn't see the act as evil (having no cognative abilities)? Well, they have no real reason to see Wicca as evil.

[g0pher]

Ok i read a book on wicca written by a former wiccan. What it comes to is that wicca is a layered type thing. As you progress you get deeper and deeper into what eventually turns out to be satanism. i think it was Aleister Crowley (harcore satanist) who wrote his little law thingy, "do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law." sounds frighteningly similar to the wiccan motto thingy stated above. The three-fold return thing pretty much defies their golden rule though. Because if witch a curses witch b, witch b is therefore allowed to curse witch a three times worse escalating to the point that whoever get there hands on an h-bomb is allowed to use it. Most importantly, don't attack your friend w/ what we believe. listen, understand, then confront gently. any more questions, feel free to ask but i likely won't know the answer.

[JerryLove]

As you progress you get deeper and deeper into what eventually turns out to be satanism. OK, this is an untrue statement.

i think it was Aleister Crowley (harcore satanist) who wrote his little law thingy, "do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law." Actually LeVeay Satanism has quite a few rules. That is the reed frollowed by *some* Satanist and *some* wiccan groups. By and large "do what you will be it harm none" (or some liguistic variant) is the reed of most Wiccan denominations.

The three-fold return thing pretty much defies their golden rule though. Because if witch a curses witch b, witch b is therefore allowed to curse witch a three times worse escalating to the point that whoever get there hands on an h-bomb is allowed to use it. You misunderstand the law of threeforld return. Being wronged does not give you the right to be the enacter of karmic law. A wronged wiccan who returns the wrong has earned their own negative karma.

Kinda like the Christian concept that you will answer for your sins, but an person who attempts to inflict that punishment is sinning himself.

[g0pher]

Sorry, i guess i read some different stuff. it's been a while since i read that book but i thought that was what he was saying. i hope i didn't come across as attacking Wicca. I believe it is wrong and that the wiccans need to hear about Christ. i guess i'll check things out more before i quote 'em. Am i right though that wiccans do increase in rank? in the book i read that was part of it and the the later rites got pretty nasty. as far as the law of three-fold return i guess maybe the authors wicca group did it differently.

[JerryLove]

Am i right though that wiccans do increase in rank? By and large, no they do not. Wiccans are usually either solitary practitioner (IME most) or members of small covens. Covens usually avoid any official "ranking" though some large ones my make general "neophyte", and "practitioner" type ranks to differentite their core memebers from more casual (or more solitary) practitioners who participate. For example, a coven with a closed "meeting group" may invite other Wiccans to particpate in holidays (such as Yule and Sohim).

I've heard comments from within the social groups to more formalized ranking systems within some groups. I've never met a Wiccan who used any, but I'll ask around.

in the book i read that was part of it and the the later rites got pretty nasty. You would have to be more specific. Also, I cannot comment with any authority on how every coven and group behaves, and there may be some regional variation I am unaware of (other groups of Wicca that don't talk to one another). I've been in close contact with many Wiccans (mostly here in Florida, but some nationally) for over a decade.

as far as the law of three-fold return i guess maybe the authors wicca group did it differently. It's not suppose to be "done" at all. It's considered like the law of gravity. It is just the way things are. No one acts to make it so, and weather you believe in it does not matter. The common phrase would be "what goes around, comes around", though if you look at eastern Karmic traditions, you'll see some of the same beliefs (the three-fold thing seems to come from the holy nature Wiccans view the number three with). Of course, most low numbers have signifigance (1 universe, 2 dieties, 3 aspects, 4 directions, 5 elements, etc.)

[sheep]

yes, wiccans are basically peaceful. thank goodness. but unfortunately i live in an area that is full of another type of witchcraft that i know to be satan-based. for years parents were afraid to let their kids go out on halloween. the witches used to hold a big rally in the downtown of a major city here. fortunately, they were driven out and they do their thing in a outside of town now.

witchcraft and all its branches are not right because they do not glorify God and Galatians 5:19-12 says it bluntly. but we cannot say that all branches are bad. that's like saying all muslims are bad and evil. it's just not true.

[passinthru]

True Wiccans are peaceful and have the beliefs described by JerryLove, however, I know of *some* people who are Satanists, but are also Wiccan and when asked would say they are Wiccan.

I can't give you statistics or direct you to an article or web site, because my knowledge comes from those who call themselves Wiccan.

Katie

[Jakubiakski]

actually any relgion other that christianity is evil because it is either forwards a perverted view of God or apeals to the Devil. There are only two sides, God's side and the Devil's.
At the same time i am think its not cool to say i hate those evil wiccan people because we are to love teh sinner and hate the sin.
but yeah it is evil no matter how "peaceful"

[JerryLove]

Nothing so refreshing as a little religious bigotry...

[sheep]

i hear ya jerry

[Hog]

Wicca is witchcraft, so i would have to go with whoever said it before.It evil and wrong.But actually every religion is evil.Right

[codyofthejungle]

how can you guys defend wicca?It doesnt matter how "good"(by the worlds standards) it is,all witchcraft is of satan,if you believe otherwise,your sorely mistaken,I'm nto usually so harsh,and dont usually say "im right,you're wrong",but any form of witchcraft in any way,shape or form is the work of the devil.It does nto clorify God,I guess some of you disagree with me,but witchcraft is not "good" no matter what anyone tells you.

[JerryLove]

Ignoring tha another religion would simply make the same argument about Christianity (how you can follow that devil corrupted Bible instead of the unchanged word of God, the Quran). I think the statements were that Wiccans are generally good people, and Wicca is a peaceful religion.

On a very tied topic, I don't see how a religion with so many variant beliefs (there are Christians who think technology is the tool of the devil and use of technology is a pact with satan (you know, like typing here). There are Christian who think taking medicine is a lack of faith in God and giving in to the temptation of the devil. There are Christians who believe *we* should exact punishment for sins and kill prisoners.). How a religion with so many points of view can be so intolerant and judgemental of other religions. How each and every Christian can be so self-assured that *teir* way is the correct one to the extent that they call even the other sects of Christianity evil, wrong, and backwards; and often go to war over it (the Irish are still fighting).

I've never heard of Wiccan groups behaving in such an unloving and inconsiderate manner.

[SideyBoy]

Hmmm... seems to be lots of niggling about the difference between good and bad, Godly and evil, but I think that using the phrase "religious bigotry" is a little personal and outstandingly rude!! To say that someone who practices witchcraft and turns away from God is doing the wrong thing is surely not bigotry but is biblical? And it would appear that throwing such an insult is just a way of not really addressing the the issue.

We seem happy to change the meanings of the words Good and Bad to mean what we want, maybe better words are Godly and evil (not Godly) these two being mutually exclusive and all incompassing. Is it not Biblical that all good thing come from God and all thing that are not of or for God are not good (bad, evil)? In fact, as I understand (and I will be happy to be corrected), the english word Good derives from the word God, therefore something must be of God to be good, therefore the phrase "good witch" is an oxymoron. I think it is our culture that re-writes the definition of good to mean something that doesn't hurt anyone else!?#

So lets be honest shall we God is Good, witchcraft is not... If you call that bigotry, fine, I call it biblical.

Disclaimer: Before anyone jumps down my throat I do not have a problem with the people, they are created by God in his image, I have a problem with what they do. The Bible says NO to Witchcraft, as it does about murder and stealing would we call someone who says that murder is wrong a religious bigot? I think not! :)

[SideyBoy]

and often go to war over it (the Irish are still fighting).

Hmmm... I know a large nunber of Christians from Northern Ireland who would never consider fighting one another. Just because the two factions sometimes use names that are linked with Christianity doesn't mean they are fighting on religious grounds. The majority of the problems in Northern Ireland and Social, economic and political, and now even historical and hate based. Most of the people of Northern Ireland are happy to live together, Protestant and Catholic. I don't think that that is a well founded arguement.

[JerryLove]

So lets be honest shall we God is Good, witchcraft is not... If you call that bigotry, fine, I call it biblical. OK, honest it is. God is not only fiction, hes horrible, poorly though out fiction that has done little but attempt to justify mellinia of malevolent, corrupy, genocidal hatred among the followers of the religions of Abraham.

Wicca, while I also believe fictional, is both superior and less unlikely than the fiction you persue as "good".

Feel better now? Then stop insulting other religions.

[BIGFATJAM]

Originally posted by JerryLove
Feel better now? Then stop insulting other religions.

If I understand correctly where you are coming from than I think you may be contradicting yourself. You do not like Christians who are exclusive in their beliefs, which unfortunately can come off as being judgmental. You condemn Christians for being exclusive yet is not your condemning of those who are exclusive contradict YOUR beliefs? How can you condemn Christians for having exclusive beliefs (based on the Bible) when your condemning of those who uphold those beliefs is hypocritical? The bottom line is how is your judging of Christian's beliefs any different than that of Christians condemning the practice of Wicca?

Maybe I am not understanding where you are coming from so my apologies if I have interpreted your posts wrongly. It would be nice if you could clarify. Thanks.

Please note the tone of this post is simply for clarification. I am not trying to "bash" what you have previously said. I simply want to know. Thanks.

[JerryLove]

I have not accused everyone of bashing (or bigotry) just a few. My point is that there is a difference between accepting the belifs of another person as true, and attacking another religion. Some of the people here (the two I have confronted) have crossed that line into unneccessairy attacks on both the religion and the people who practice it.

I belong to neither Wicca, not Christianity. I do not believe either religion to be correct or true. That is not a criteria I use for discussing the religion in any general sense (though there are specific conversations where my belief in it's correctness would come into play).

A discussion on Wicca is appropriate to this thread, a discussion on how it relates to Christian beliefs is as well. The comments I responded to include "any relgion other that christianity is evil", "those evil wiccan people", "but yeah it is evil no matter how "peaceful"", "It evil and wrong.But actually every religion is evil.", "witchcraft is of satan,if you believe otherwise,your sorely mistaken".

If my last post provoked an emotional response, good. Because it's exactly the attitude being used to describe other religions. If you think my post was hostile, then look at the posts it was in response to and see how they are also hostile. It isn't a question of weather you believe the other religion true, it's a matter of weather you show a proper respect to the beliefs of others. If you do not, do not expect me to show any for yours.

[BIGFATJAM]

Jerrylove…Thanks for your clarification. I think I understand where you are coming from a little better.

Even though those comments you quoted were extreme in nature, they are still what those who voiced them strongly believe. As I read through this thread I did not really see (maybe with one or two exceptions) anyone attacking another religion more so than what I did see as Christians who have strong convictions poising their views. To request otherwise would be asking them to "water down" their deep convictions in order to not to offend anyone. If I understand you, you would take the position as one who is inclusive and not exclusive. Than to ask them not to voice their convictions from your perspective would be wrong. If you do hold to the view of being inclusive (upholding everyone's views as right unto themselves) than how can you be exclusive?

I agree with you that you should not judge others. That is not our place. However, Christianity is not inclusive, it is exclusive (John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.) which will be offensive to some. To request otherwise would simply be asking Christians not to stand for what they believe for the risk of being offensive. Now I am clearly NOT saying that Christians should spout off at every opportunity to condemn the world! That is not our job nor place. Christians are here to love, serve and share God's love with others. Our biggest motivation is love.

[Hog]

Originally posted by codyofthejungle
how can you guys defend wicca?It doesnt matter how "good"(by the worlds standards) it is,all witchcraft is of satan,if you believe otherwise,your sorely mistaken,I'm nto usually so harsh,and dont usually say "im right,you're wrong",but any form of witchcraft in any way,shape or form is the work of the devil.It does nto clorify God,I guess some of you disagree with me,but witchcraft is not "good" no matter what anyone tells you.


I agree with this.Witchcraft is wrong.No loopholes!!!!!!!!And like Cody i don't see how you guys can defend it.No matter how peaceful or whatever you say it is.But i will also say every religion is wrong and sinful.And if anyway wants to jump down my throat for this.Well............Bring it on.You can TRY and convince me otherwise if you wanna take the time.

[JerryLove]

I'm not trying to convince you otherwise, I'm trying to sho why it's unneccessairy, disrespectful, and hostile.

Were this a Wiccan board and someone asked about Christianity, how would you respond to Christianity being described as "an evil religion practiced by evil people who pervert the true goodness of the Goddess into something twisted and horribly wrong. Christians need to be brought from their evil and backward ways into the light of the true religion."?

Do you think that is a useful answer to "What is Christianity?" Do you think it is fair? Do you think it is respectful? Do you think it encourages a real discourse?

[BIGFATJAM]

Originally posted by JerryLove
I'm not trying to convince you otherwise, I'm trying to sho why it's unneccessairy, disrespectful, and hostile.

I wholeheartedly agree with you :)


Were this a Wiccan board and someone asked about Christianity, how would you respond to Christianity being described as "an evil religion practiced by evil people who pervert the true goodness of the Goddess into something twisted and horribly wrong. Christians need to be brought from their evil and backward ways into the light of the true religion."?

Do you think that is a useful answer to "What is Christianity?" Do you think it is fair? Do you think it is respectful? Do you think it encourages a real discourse?

If I came across such a board I certainly would not agree with the description of Christianity, but at the same time I would expect someone from a different religion to have an opposing, distorted view of Christianity. I certainly would not belittle them or use language like bigotry to get my point across, but I would (in love and with respect of course) try to offer an explanation to help them understand true Christianity.

I know you are trying to bring in an objective view, which believe it or not I greatly respect and appreciate. However, I do want to make certain that you are consistent in your statements...that's all:) I hope you do the same for me. It’s the only way we can have healthy debatable dialogue.

[Hog]

Originally posted by JerryLove
I'm not trying to convince you otherwise, I'm trying to sho why it's unneccessairy, disrespectful, and hostile.

Were this a Wiccan board and someone asked about Christianity, how would you respond to Christianity being described as "an evil religion practiced by evil people who pervert the true goodness of the Goddess into something twisted and horribly wrong. Christians need to be brought from their evil and backward ways into the light of the true religion."?

Do you think that is a useful answer to "What is Christianity?" Do you think it is fair? Do you think it is respectful? Do you think it encourages a real discourse?


We aren't talkin about Christianity.We are talkin about Wicca.There is a difference because Christianiy is the truth and everything else it totally wrong.I wouldn't like Christianity being described as evil but there is a difference.First of all its a fact that Wicca is evil.I don't look down on people who are of different religions but i DO believe they are wrong.

[JerryLove]

We aren't talkin about Christianity.We are talkin about Wicca. We are talking about etiquette. That's the first thing you need to understand. Such hostile and useless rhetoric is bad etiquette.

There is a difference because Christianiy is the truth and everything else it totally wrong. No, Daoism is the truth and everything else is wrong... No wait, Wicca is the truth and everything else is wrong... No wait, Islam... See how much fun that conversation is?

I wouldn't like Christianity being described as evil but there is a difference. No, ther is not a difference. YOu are bashing someones belief in a maner you would not like yours bashed.

First of all its a fact that Wicca is evil.I don't look down on people who are of different religions but i DO believe they are wrong. What you believe is right, wrong, good, or evil has not bearing on how you should conduct a conversation. Treat others as you would like to be treated.

[Hog]

How am i bashing?I am just saying Wicca is evil and wrong.Do you disagree with that?But that is the way it is.

[JerryLove]

Allow me to quote you in response...

I wouldn't like Christianity being described as evil but there is a difference.First of all its a fact that Wicca is evil.

[Hog]

Geez man!!!!!!! Do you think Wicca is evil or not???????? There is a big difference!!!!!!!! The Bible calls witchcraft evil and wrong.Are you saying the bible is all impolite and stuff for bashing witchcraft?????????HUH?????Is that what your saying.Because i know the Bible condemns witchcraft.

[JerryLove]

I've been quite clear. I don't think Wicca is evil, I think the Bible is evil. And I think they are both fictitious (since you asked). But that's all irrellevent. You are being impolite by behaving in a manner that you yourself said you would not like others to behave toward you. If you cannot manage to grasp that short a piece of logic, I fear that no amount of me providing additional information will be of assistance. As I mentioned before "do unto others as you would have done to you".

[Hog]

Okay man,sorry my bad.I thought that you were a Christian. I can't expect you to understand what i'm sayin if your not.But i don't really think that what i said was bad.But i am curious about something.No offense or anything but would you mind answering a question for me?If your not a Christian then why do you bother coming to a Christian giutar network?

[JerryLove]

See the other 10 times I answered this question....

That said, my response is unrealted to weather I am Christian or not. As a Christian, I would be even more adament that you should treat others as you wish to be treated and that taking a condecending and superior tone when expressing a belief is huberus unbecoming an error-prone, sinful, imperfect human.

In short, the tone and language is inconsiderate. There are no ifs, ands, or buts.

[Hog]

I have to disagree with you.And thats all to be said.

[BIGFATJAM]

Jerry I should point out that the tone and language in many of your posts have been condenscending and inconsiderate as well. I just wanted to point out that observation ;)

[timberwolf_s]

the tone of this thread is getting condenscending and inconsiderate. sorry. that being said, any member of any religion probably has no doubt that their religion is true. which is why all of the statements on this thread have been impossible to back up. there are people who converted from islam, hindu, wicca, and many other religions to christianity who will tell you from their personal experience that christianity is the only true religion. however, there are christians (who had their religion but never really had a saviour) who converted to other religions who will tell you christianity is totally false. the world famous taliban fighter john walker, for example (pray for him! pray for osama too! yeah he deserves to die but so do you). which is why every religion is the world contradicts itself by preaching peace and acceptance while calling every other religion a huge lie. so we just have to say it: any born again christian knows and has proof that christianity is real. the closeminded-ness of religion is absurd, but jesus christ is the only way to heaven. i doubt that any "accepting christian" is actually saved. hindus are on their way to hell, islamic people are on their way to hell, wiccans are on their way to hell, and evolutionists are on their way to hell (probably about a half of "christians" are on their way there too). that's just the way it is. but because we love the people who practice those religions, we should be out showing them the true love of christ, not condemning them.

that kinda made sense, but it's late and i didn't really make my point well. bottom line -- every religion believes every other is false. the difference is christ is real and he saves. the other religions are on their way to hell, but they will stand up just as boldly as i am and say that i'm a liar. so we're kinda in a pickle. the final bottom line -- stop arguing this topic, get back to talking about what wiccans believe, and get out more and show christ's love to all the lost people. the only way of proving that christianity is real is speaking personally to christ himself, which i myself do every day. let his love shine through you, and nobody will be able to deny him.

[Hog]

Who is condemning?Me????????I'm tellin facts.