Secular Music Forum...

[Travis]

Yay, glad it's here and glad you are a mod Ali ;)

[Scott]

well, its good to see that this forum is getting some really good traffic. hurray!

[GodsStratMan]

Isn't this along the same lines as having a thread about how the Jerry Springer show relates to my faith ? I like some secular music too ... but there is no way I can relate it to the awesome holiness of God, or on His impact in my life.

[Scott]

we are discussing the morality of secular music, our appreciation of secular music, and the themes behind secular music. Nothing wrong with that is there? And there was a need for this forum since lots of people were talking about this stuff elsewhere.

[GodsStratMan]

.... And I quote from the creator of this thread ....

"Lets use this forum to express how some secular music can relate to our faith and all that good stuff "

I'm sorry ... but a misguided songwriter musing about the mysteries of life does not equate to the saving grace of Jesus in my life.

[DreamChaser]

Heya,

Oh boy...already looks like a debate here:D

[Scott]

God created us in His image. Our creations are a pale reflection of that. Even non-christians. As such, some of it will have themes that are positive morally. Nirvana for instance. In come as you are, it says "Come as you are, as you were, as I want you to be". Which I think is a message we can apply as Christians (i.e. not saying "oooh no, you are just toooo nasty to come to our church. Please stay away". Also, you don't have to take the writer's meaning of the lyrics.

[Travis]

Exactly Scottyboy. Just because the writer was meaning a certain thing doesn't mean that we can't take it as something totally different to us.

[Scott]

i see music as an art. When you look at a painting, say Salvador Dali, you have to look at it, find out what it's about, look for themes etc, and look for anything that isn't obvious at first glance, without the artist telling you what they meant. This doesnt diminish the beauty of the painting. Same with music.

[Singin4Him82]

wow if this isn't conformity i dont know what is, not to be mean but this is CHRISTIAN guitar resource I'm a little disapointed...

Romans 12:2 Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is--his good, pleasing and perfect will.

[Brent]

I have to somewhat agree with Delaina... It's sad that at our Christian website the secular artists/music forum generates much more traffic than the Christian artist forums ever have. I don't particularly have a problem with secular music...to each his own...but I, for one, choose not to listen to it as much as possible. It's just a shame that the Christian artists who are as good as (if not better than) many secular artists don't get the same attention simply because of a label put on them.

Brent

[bleachedrhino]

I agree totally with what you just said Brent. It's so hard for a Christian band to get started because it seems like the public (including some Christians) push them away when they hear that they are Christians. That is a total disappointment.
:cool:

[SnapCase]

I don't think this is even close to conformity because we are not conforming to how the world lives. It's impossible to avoid the secular world. Secular does not mean evil. It becomes evil when the secular becomes our idol. This is true of even holy things. Worship can become an idol. Reading our Bible can be an idol.

Conformity happens when we stop living our lives for Christ, and start living our lives to the worlds standards.

*Steps off soapbox*

[Ali4God]

Thats definitley what I was thinking... just couldn't get it out ;) Well said Snap!
*Alison*

[Brent]

I'm not sure, but I don't think Delaina's point was that by listening to the music you are conforming to the world... I think her point was that the conforming was the fact that we have this *huge* secular music forum on our Christian message boards. That *is* a bit odd to me as I've pointed out already....but like I said, to each his own. I, personally, choose not to listen to secular music as much as I can. That's a personal choice, though. If you're not listening to it then there's no chance of it becoming an "idol" or you turning to the world because of it.

Brent

P.S. DJ made good points...I just don't think that's what Delaina was getting at exactly. But yeah, good stuff.

[SnapCase]

I'm with Brent. I hardly listen to much secular music. Except for the past month or so. I've been listening to this hard rock station here in Knoxville. I've been listening to a few songs by Nickelback, Dave Matthews, and Staind.

I think Christian music is in a slump right now. They aren't producing much music that is quality. The only thing on my list right now is the new Five Iron Frenzy album. Besides that, there is nothing out there taht I want or like.

[guyskankrye]

I believe that the Bible says if it's not for God it's against God. Why waste the time and effort to edify secular music when you could be doing something for God. Just a thought.

Make a great day,

Jeremy

[Scott]

come on, christian music is nowhere near the standard of secular music as a whole, because a lot of people seen the fact that some christians will buy music simply because it says christian on the label.

And I know that there are some good christian bands out there, some of my favourite bands are christian (newsboys, switchfoot, third day etc) but as a whole the industry has some catching up to do.

[nestamanchris]

I'm with scottyboy. I was in my favorite Christian bookstore this weekend and, as always, I was amazed at the number of "worship" cd's out there. People will buy "WOW" cd's just because they have that name on them... (sort of like the secular "NOW" cd's). I respect Christian music more than secular b/c of what it ultimately stands for, but disagree all you want, it's still a big business with a major bottom line of making money. I would listen to much more Christian music, but much of the Christian realm seems to be playing "catch up" and many of the artists are just a poor rehashing of whatever else has made it big recently.

[Singin4Him82]

I'm sorry DJ but I disagree completely. There are a lot of people who struggle with the issue of secular music. No it's not all "bad" but if it's not Christ centered and the artist who make the music aren't in Christ then doesn't that make them of the world? The issue for me here isn't that secular music is the devil but that being that this is Christian guitar resource why have a whole forum dedicated to something so much of the world...something in my opinion that can have bad effects on teens these days and cause some to stumble. You can justify listening to secular music anyway you want but when it comes down to it, do you think Jesus would sit there and enjoy that music w/you? As cheesy as that sound...that is just my opinion and my conviction on this issue.

[barberjo]

We have forums for other secular industries: cars, video games, food.

[Singin4Him82]

oops I posted before I realized all the others had *hehe* o well :). One more thing I noticed you guys saying...I think that the punk,rock etc etc bands aren't out there as much as they should be and possible are trying to play "catch up" but I recently was in the recording studio doing a cd and talking to the studio manager and he told me that CCM is doing so good that a lot of the studios in Nashville are recording much more Christian than secular these days b/c CCM is on the rise.

PS. I highly doubt food or cars can play a part in this debate LOL.

[Scott]

quantity doesnt = quality.

also, i think that Jesus would have sat and listened to the music with us, but if it was a bit dodgy he would have destroyed it or something. But if it was ok, he'd have been fine.

Remember his first miracle was at a wedding. There would have been music there too.

[IFearCarnies]

Think about all the famous artist and composers of the past who were not Christians. Most of us still enjoy their art and their music even though it is "secular." What about the NFL? Most people watch football (not me, I find it boring), but football doesn't glorify God. Reggie White is a Christian in the NFL, is he doing something wrong? Just my quick thoughts...

[nestamanchris]

Exactly Delaina, the Nashville studios are recording CCM b/c it'll make them money, the bottom line.

[Singin4Him82]

who cares about the nashville making money, most CCM artist do it for God and that's all that matters!It's all about God!

[Travis]

I agree with those who have stated that the quality of Christian music as a whole cannot even compare to the quality of secular music as a whole. They often just imitate secular artists or sing all their songs about basically the same thing. It gets old when every song is happy and talking about God and that is just the sad truth. Almost all "worship music" is simply boring, sorry. It all sounds alike. I want creative, artistic, deep, emotional, passionate, high quality music that seems takes me to a different world, by talented musicians, whether it be Christian or secular. The only problem is, I can't say I have ever seen a Christian band that totally fits that discription.

[SnapCase]

There are a few high quality Christian muscians out there. Since I'm such a guitar freak, Tourniquet has some awesome guitar solo's and riffs. One of the more talented Christian Metal Bands.

[Brent]

If you think about it, Christian music 'imitating' the sound of what's popular in the secular world isn't always a bad thing. It gives Christians an alternative to the negative secular stuff out there instead of listening to something that could possibly bring them down in their walk with Christ. That's a good thing....but it's also what's cutting their own throat. By imitating what's already been popular in the secular world the industry is turning people who don't already listen to Christian music away from the good, positive stuff that is being put out. People who don't listen to the Christian stuff aren't going to start when the stuff put out by our industry is the same stuff that is fading out already in the secular world. The problem with Christian music is that not enough artists/groups come out with original-sounding stuff. This is no fault of the artists or groups, either. When it comes to music, most Christians are some of the harshest critics and the pickiest about what they will listen to. They are not very accepting of new styles and the artists know that, so they just re-hash the stuff that they know will work. The ones who try something new often fizzle out very quickly if they ever take off at all, and that's very discouraging to anyone else wanting to try something new. Just look at any band who's been around for a while...after a couple albums they usually end up changing their sound in some way. There are then people who refuse to listen anymore and they bash the music saying they don't like it, no matter how good it really is...just because they won't give it a chance. My point? The reason Christian music is mediocre at best and probably always will be is because of Christians themselves. I say all that from the viewpoint of an outsider looking in, but I'm a Christian, too, I'm just not closed-minded about my music like a majority of Christians seem to be. I hope everyone here is in the minority like me as well.

Brent

[barberjo]

Originally posted by Brent
The reason Christian music is mediocre at best and probably always will be is because of Christians themselves.

Absolutely true!! Christian music isn't as good because we buy it, even though it's crap! The Christian music industry has no incentive to improve the quality of its product - because we buy anything that says Jesus on it.

Fortunately, the situation seems to be improving. There is light at the end of the tunnel! There is some great music coming - you just have to go out and look for it. Hint - it's not always in the Christian section at Best Buy.


John

[Brent]

Originally posted by barberjo
There is some great music coming - you just have to go out and look for it. Hint - it's not always in the Christian section at Best Buy.

John Heck, it's not even always in stores. Can we say www.grassrootsmusic.com and www.independentbands.com ?

Brent

[Scott]

actually, there are a few bands that don't just do happy, bouncy songs, and do really good stuff, although they will probly be a little too indie for your tastes Travis (as far as i've picked them up). Switchfoot have some great lyrics, and they guitar work is pretty good, considering Jon sings at the same time. Also, the Newsboys Take Me to Your Leader is a great album, apart from all the mid-nineties electronica stuff that crept in on some songs.

[Brent]

Originally posted by scottyboy
actually, there are a few bands that don't just do happy, bouncy songs, and do really good stuff, although they will probly be a little too indie for your tastes Travis ...which was my point exactly. Indie bands and bands who never really make it (technically still indie bands) are pretty much the only ones who dare to do something different. In many cases this is also why they never really see success as the world would call it. The ones that do see success are usually the ones who end up sounding like someone or something else that's already been done.

Brent

P.S. I returned John's post to its original, unedited state per the mod guidelines that read: B - Edit any posts containing profanity. Words like "suck", "crap", "heck," "dang" and so forth are not considered profanity.

[Scott]

oh my bad. sorry. does any of the mod types think we should put this whole discussion into a thread instead of in this sticky?

[Ali4God]

Sure thing... or we can just un-sticky this... I'm sure everybody gets the jist of things by now, ya know?
*Alison*

[Brent]

Yeah, you could un-sticky it if you wanted...or I could, just say so. Doesn't really make any difference...it's easier to spot at the top, but a sticky and a 'regular' thread are all the same...just one stays at the top and the other doesn't. ::shrugs::

Brent

[Ali4God]

Whatever floats your boats fellas :) If you want this to be a seperate thread, then go ahead and start a new one... its your call. I'll leave it up to you Scotty... you're my hero and I trust you, heehee ;)
*Alison*

[Brent]

::feels betrayed:: :( :rolleyes:

Brent :p

[Ali4God]

Aww, honey... I'm all about you being 'super-mod' and making the call too :D No worries... I am new to the whole 'mod' thing, so y'all gotta help me out!
*Alison*

[Scott]

me too, this is my first proper modship. in a busy forum anyway. I think I'll just make the new thread.