Looking to buy Keyboard

[ken]

any keyboard guys out there wanna help me with some suggestions:

I am looking to buy a keyboard, it will be my first. I am a guitar player with a good bit of theory knowledge but have never really tried to actually play keys.

The main thing I am looking to do is some accompaniment stuff for my guitar work. So I am looking for a keyboard with the following:

On board sequencer
Built in disk drive
Midi compatible

I would like to sequence drum tracks, bass tracks, some synth or piano or violin or horn or whatever other instruments, then save them to a midi file on the internal disk drive so I can delete them off the keyboard and then restore and play them later. I would also like the ability to download midi files off the net and load them into the keyboard and play them also.

Am I correct in thinking that the midi files I download and play on my computer will sound much better on a decent set of keys? aren't the midi sounds better on keyboards than on your computer (usually)?

Also since I am new to keys it wouldn't hurt to have some type of auto features to help me out.

I have been looking at the Yamaha PSR350 and PSR550. I really think the PSR350 may be a better option for me because of the built in Y.E.S. (Yamaha Education Suite) learning software built in to the board (I also have two young children who might benefit from this at some point). I don't know if the Extras on the PSR550 are worth the extra $200.

I would also probably like use the sequencer to later feed a 4 track recorder. I think any of the units with sequencers can do this but would like to know if anyone else has done anything like this and how they like the sounds.

So come on all you keyboard guys. Help this lowly guitar player out. Give me some good advice so I can get the right set of keys to begin with and don't waste my money on a toy.

[Nate]

Originally posted by ken
The main thing I am looking to do is some accompaniment stuff for my guitar work. So I am looking for a keyboard with the following:

On board sequencer
Built in disk drive
Midi compatible

Yamaha's PSR series would be a good place to start.... but it looks like you figured that out already! ;)

Am I correct in thinking that the midi files I download and play on my computer will sound much better on a decent set of keys? aren't the midi sounds better on keyboards than on your computer (usually)?

You are very correct. :D The sounds on even the cheapest of Casio's will usually sound ten times better than most any computer.

I have been looking at the Yamaha PSR350 and PSR550. I really think the PSR350 may be a better option for me because of the built in Y.E.S. (Yamaha Education Suite) learning software built in to the board (I also have two young children who might benefit from this at some point).

I don't have any experience with the Y.E.S. software..... but I'm usually not too impressed with onboard learning software. Don't think that Y.E.S. is a substitute for lessons..... rather, think of it as a reinforcer. (Don't get me wrong, I'm sure Y.E.S. could prove quite useful..... just don't raise your expectations too high)


I don't know if the Extras on the PSR550 are worth the extra $200.

Well.... I'm not really familiar with either board.... so I'm going from info found at www.zzounds.com (BTW, the price difference there is only $100... $400 for the 350, $500 for the 550)

It seems to me that the major "extras" are:

>> Twice as much wave ROM (which means the sounds will be of a higher quality on the 550)
>> 3 custom styles.... this would allow you to make a new auto-accompaniment if none of the preset patterns suits the song you're doing. Depending on how much you plan to use the a-a feature... this could come in handy.

You'll have to make the decision on whether it's worth the extra $100 or so depending on your financial situation and your plans for this keyboard.


So come on all you keyboard guys. Help this lowly guitar player out. Give me some good advice so I can get the right set of keys to begin with and don't waste my money on a toy.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help.... I have almost no experience with the PSR series. However..... I can direct you to a site that may help you a little more.

http://www.synthworld.com/cgi-bin/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&number=37&SUBMIT=Go

I believe you'll have to register to post.... but I'm sure they can help more than I have been able to. Also.... you might want to check this thread out...

http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/002316.html

Someone is selling their PSR-740 for $550. Which brings me to my next point..... you might want to consider buying used. Check eBay, the classifieds, sites like SynthZone, etc, etc...... you might be able to get a much higher quality keyboard for the same price as the 350 or 550.

Anyway.... hope this helps.

[LWatford]

I have the cheapest Yamaha that has a disk drive, and it handles my sequnces very well. The polyphony is executed in a way that allows all of your notes to be played by "thining" the sounds out a little. My sequences usually involve at least 10 tracks, and I make use of many controll functions, and the Yamaha seems to take it. The onboard sequencer is a little quirky, so I would recomend a software sequencer to do most of your work on.

Lee

[Lowe_Dawg55]

I would like to suggest a board, but it is a little expensive for a beginner...It is the Korg Triton. This board will do anything but the dishes. I use it in my youth praise and worship and it is the best thing since fried chicken...(sorry, I'm from Arkansas...)

[Nate]

HAHA!! I could have suggested quite a few expensive boards too, my friend!!! The only problem is... it's apparant that ken's budget will not allow for something like the Triton (Which is, BTW, a great board)

Anyway.... welcome to the boards. Maybe you should start a thread on the Triton??? *hint, hint!* ;)

[ken]

thanks a bunch..

I just got back from guitar center and played the psr350,psr550, and psr640. I took a midi with me that I downloaded off the 'net. When I played that midi on my pc it sounded, well, not good at all. I put this in each of the above mentioned boards, it loaded right up, played awesome. It sounded like a complete band. I am very happy with that on all the boards. even the psr350. The psr350 wasn't as full as the other two, but still acceptable.

I am now concerned mainly with the challenge of sequencing this thing. The guy I talked to was a little bit of help but wasn't that familiar with sequencing on the keyboard since he said he uses his pc. I could do this too, but right now I am a "bit" behind on my pc technology. I have a p200 mmx/64 meg ram. does good for what i do, 'net surf (cable modems rock), my wife and both work from home a little, word proccssing, spreadsheets, simple stuff. I am a little afraid of trying to sequence with this thing and getting bogged down in the pc part. My computer doesn't even have a usb port, how ancient can you be.

So if I am going to sequence from the keys, and my key skills aren't even close, then I will need something to do like step edits and copy/paste functions. the psr550 has a 16 track sequencer as opposed to the 6 track on the psr350 so more instruments are possible. I couldn't really spend a lot of time programming the sequencer though, and didn't have a manual handy.

anyone have any experience programming these models. Lee, you said you had the cheapest, is that the 350 or 340? what kind of quirky stuff is there? if the 550 sequences easier I might just spend the extra cash on that (kbf you are right too, the difference is about $120 at GC ($379 - $499, the GC offered me the board for $484, and knocked some cash off the stand, stool, etc).

I still can't believe how great that midi file sounded on all these keyboards. I never knew midi could sound that way 'cause I had only heard it on my pc. What a surprise.

Thanks for any help you guys can offer.

[LWatford]

The seqencer just isn't very involved. You can do step edit, but then everything is very mechanical. The actual process of doing the step edit is not very intuative. The record at once function actually works pretty well, except I havn't found a way to undo what you record. I can send you a manual in a .pdf file if you want.

I really think that no matter what keyboard you get, you should get some software for your PC. The actual program is fairly small, and MIDI files are small, so it won't be that much of a burden on your computer. People still buy Ataris to sequence on, and your PC is alot better that that! If you look around at http://www.hitsquad.com/smm/ , you might find some freeware seqencers. I have found a few there I like, but there are some really bad ones also. The only cable you will need is a game-port to MIDI cable. These are avalible at most computer and music stores. You shouldn't need anything more than that, as long as your soundcard is compatable (most are).

If I can help any, let me know.

Lee

If the extra cash isn't a big factor (it's always a factor!), I would go for the higher end keyboard. The sounds are not that much better, but there are more of them. If you use the onboard seqencer, you can use them with no problem, but if you use a software seqencer, the seqencer must be able to use bank select messages.

[ken]

If the extra cash isn't a big factor (it's always a factor!), I would go for the higher end keyboard. The sounds are not that much better, but there are more of them. If you use the onboard seqencer, you can use them with no problem, but if you use a software seqencer, the seqencer must be able to use bank select messages.

Lee,

You confused me with that last bit about the bank select. Is that a feature of the software? or the soundcard? I have a Creative Labs SB16 Waveffects card. Will this work. When I play the midi files on the PC will the sounds be the ones from the keyboard?

By higher end keyboard did you mean the 550? I never did get which one you had?

As far as real time recording goes, is it like a multitrack system?
lay down the drums, play the drums back while laying down the bass, play the drums and bass back whil laying down the piano, etc, etc, etc.?

I will PM you my home email if you wouldn't mind emailing me the pdf of the manual you have.

Thanks again for your info.

[LWatford]

Sorry! I have the PSR-340.

When you play back a MIDI file on the onbaord seqencer, it uses the defalt General MIDI sound bank. These sounds are pretty good, but as you might have noticed, there are lots of other sounds on the keyboard. If you use the on-board seqencer it is no problem to record with them, but if you use a seqencer on your computer and want to use those sounds your seqencer must be able to send bank select messages. All this does is tell the keyboard to use sounds other than the 128 General MIDI sounds.

Your soundblaster card will work fine, and yes, the sounds you hear will be the ones on the keyboard. You will only need the joystick to MIDI cable to hook eveything up.

The idea of multitrack recording idea is exactly right. You select what track you want to record and what sound you want, then you record. Then you repeat it how ever many times you need. (6 on the 340, 16 on the other model, I think). The only problem with recording this way is the lack of editing features. If you mess up, you have to start over again. The other way to enter notes is a step-edit mode, meaning you manually insert notes and rests into the seqence. Since you can't see what you have done, this is very difficult.

The reason I got the 340 is I got a very, very good used deal. I had been looking at the 550 and one other Yamaha. If I hadn't gotten a deal on the 340, I would have saved some more for the other models.

I don't have a PM, just email me, I think I made my address avalible.

Lee

[LWatford]

I just tried mailing it, our network is kinda "unstable," so if you don't get it, I'll post it here, or you can go to Yamaha's web site and download it, and the manual for the other keyboards you're looking at.

Lee

[ken]

Lee,
Thanks for all your help. I didn't get the attachments but that's ok b/c as you said, I can go to Yamah's site and download the thing. I was just there night before last and saw it, just didn't think about looking at it myself. (Now if I can just convince the wife :D :D I am wearing on her though, I can tell.)

I am seriously thinking about the psr550 with the sequencing software. can you recommend a good (and free) sequencer.