secular music.......

[jarsgirl86]

What are your opinions on secular music good for the your spiritual life? or does it have long term effects on your walk?
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[theotherpete]

"secular" music is great. it takes you out of the christian bubble and introduces you to good music. (not to say ALL christian bands aren't that great, but most aren't). but you'll find out who a lot of christian bands are trying to be. it also gives you a good non-christian perspective on things.

{pete}

[jarsgirl86]

This may be true, but are you saying that all secular music is good or just some of it? Certain bands such as Perfect Circle(not to pick on a band i have only heard one song from) condem the God you say you love, is it still ok to listen to them?
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[matnus]

This has been debated so much already. You could probably find a lot of answers in Everything Christian. I still listen to secular music, but am in the process of rethinking that.

Matt

[Megan]

Philip. 4:8
Finally, beloved, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is pleasing, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence and if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.


music effects our thoughts and thoughts eventually can be carried out through our actions. i think this bible verse pretty much sums up what we should be listening to. i do agree with the fact that you can gain inspiration from secular artists, but i think also that we should choose what we listen to very carefully and use a lot of wisdom doing so. i listen to some secular music, but i'm really picky....some examples are Creed, Lifehouse, and Fuel. i don't really have a solid answer, and i don't think i'm necessarily right, but i think we should take everything we listen to with a great deal of discernment.

[theotherpete]

I personally am a fan of A Perfect Circle and Tool. They make good music. The lyrics are an expression of how they feel. I respect that. My beliefs are not so weaks as to be affected by what a band says in a song.

And no, not all "secular" music is good. But most christian music is unoriginal and uncreative (with the exception of a small handfull of bands). I listen to what I deem to be good music.

{pete}

[jarsgirl86]

I completely understand your view on the subject, as a matter of fact i agree with the statement abtou alot of Christian music beign un origional btu you can also look at the secular industry in the same light such as all boy bands haveing the same make up for the most part, the bad boy, the baby blue eyes of the group, and of course you must always have the two or three extra guys there to back up the others, this view can also be applied to many of the secular rock bands look at bands such as KoRn adn Adema they are teh same alot of that does have to do with their lead singers being related but the are stilup alot alike, or even bands such as Staind and Incubus. I understand how you can say Christian music is unorigional btu the same is true of the very music you are defending. I also understand how you say that your walk is strong enough that you dont' believe this music can affect your walk what happens when you show up at church with one of those songs in your head and you can't get it out? and instead of concentrateing on the surmon you are hummign one of those songs to yoruself? I am sorry if I seem to be preaching but it is simply my point of view.
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[Unregistered]

Heya,

what happens when you show up at church with one of those songs in your head and you can't get it out? and instead of concentrateing on the surmon you are hummign one of those songs to yoruself?

are you saying that if you got a Christian song stuck in your head then it would be better? Seems to me you wouldnt be concentrating on the sermon whether or not it is a secular song.

[DreamChaser]

Heya,

oops! that was me up there!

[jarsgirl86]

Yes, I see where you are comming from, btu if you had a Christian song in your head at least it would be glorifying God... I guess you are right there though.......
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[Brent]

I'm leaving this thread open because the other secular music "debate" has faded into the deeper pages of the CCM & Praise forum....plus the other was getting kind of ugly. So let's just keep this one clean and we'll all be happy. No one's done anything bad, just a reminder.

Brent

[theotherpete]

who's says all "christian" songs are glorifying to God.

{pete}

[brandontmilan]

until about a year or so ago, i didn't really listen to much Christian music, but then i started listening to some, and then it started being all that i pretty much listened to, and i believe that that helped me grow closer to God, but now, i'm able to listen to more secular music, without it affecting me, it's true that w/ the acception of a few bands, a lot of Christian music is unoriginal, living off of someone else's style....... i think that there is a point where you can appreciate secular music(that of which can be truly defined as music), without compromising your faith, sometimes even strengthening your faith...... just a question, to those of you who listen to nothing but Christian music, do you refuse to read or appreciate literature by secular authors???

[fenderjazzman]

I don't have a problem with people listening to secular music as long as it doesn't bring spiritual harm. I believe that if you have a relationship with God, he'll let you know what's ok and what's not.
With that aside, I really don't see what all of you get out of the secular stream. True, there are some talented bands out there, but to me without that anointing that God blesses most Christian artists with, the music just isn't worth my time. There's something special that goes with many who are in the Christian music business because God put them there. Besides, if I'm gonna spend any of my spare time listening to music, I'd much rather hear something that brings glory to my Jesus.
And, Pete, you're right; not all "Christian" songs are glorifying to God. Not all "Christian" bands either. That's why you have to be careful about what you feed your spirit.
Usually, if the presence of God enters the room where I am when I listen to a CD, that tells me I've found a winner.
And, Pete, when you said that most Christian bands aren't that great... you were wrong. Even if you don't like the style of most, truth is, they're doing something for God. And I sure hope you weren't referring to Switchfoot in any way.

[Megan]

right on, fenderjazzman.

[jarsgirl86]

I couldn't have said it better myself Fender!

[theotherpete]

i hate it when people say "at least they're doing something for God." if they suck, like some bands do, then its not glorifying God, because they are not using their talents effectively.

{pete}

[AcousticChik]

I'm def. with fenderjazzman on this one (Hey Stin):D If you can take the music you listen to and you can get something out of it that glorifies God then it's def. worth listening to. If your a strong enough christian you will know what you should and should not listen to. As Fender said when you walk into a room and you can feel the presence of God coming from the music you are playing you've found a winner! How can a secular stream of music help you spiritually? <}}}><

[pcfalcon]

Smile peeps. We're living in some very exciting times. FenderJazzMan, you're all over it. Music with a message (Christian Music) is very good stuff. And I agree, not all christian bands and music have the message, nor do they a live it.

Pete, I am buy no way slammin on you or running you opinion in the ground. I just want to point out the simple fact, that never before, until now, has the secular world had to copy the Christian world to keep up. We're living in exciting times. I'm sure you are familiar with the "NOW" series of CD's that the secular begin to produce copying the "WoW" series that Christian Men and Women of God have been producing for nearly a Decade.

FenderJazzMan, it is people like you, who stand up for the Gospel, who are truly the "Hands and Feet of Jesus". I too want be used by God. And I love slide a Praise and Worship Cd into the player Seek God's Face.
100% HIS,
pcfalcon

[mdbarnes85]

I get your point pcfalcon, but I don't think it's really fair to say that the Now series is copying Wow. Compilation discs have been around since long before anybody knew what CCM was. Neither series can take credit for pioneering the annual comp idea.

[elifan86]

Like someone posted this before, I use Philipians 4:8 as my standard. Bands like Marylin Manson and Eminem I think everyone can agree would cause spiritual harm, but bands I like such as U2 and Collective Soul are fine.

[MRGREEN23]

Alright, here we go again...... Hey Brent, thanks for leaving this one open, I love debating these subjects.

Let me make this statement and then I'll try to elaborate on it a little....

Whether or not you listen to secular music depends on the level of your walk with Christ....

And YES, I am saying that some people are closer to God than others...... If the shoe fits.........I guess you have to wear it!

Here is my point, and I hope to convey this to everyone who thinks that it is okay, especially "theotherpete"... You say you like Tool....I've seen their CD cover, and, well, I don't think so....

God's desire is for us to live Holy like Him, although we are sinful, we should strive to be more like God.....When we pursue the things of God, then the other "Things" start to fall away.....

God is not moving away from you.....He's as close to you as you'll allow Him to be......Most people don't allow Him into their lives as Lord.....There is a difference between Lord and Savior......That's why we say them together...."Lord AND Savior"...........He can save you and become your Savior, but until you submit to His will, He is not your Lord.

Am I saying that I am closer to God than you because I don't listen to secular music???? ...... Yes!!!!!! I am saying that.........There is no wall of seperation from things like music or movies, or even food!!!!! God wants us pure....Don't use the copout that "well, we're not perfect, so God should not expect us to give up those things"....That is bull !!!!!!!! The Bible says, "Live Holy, for I am Holy"......Try to read into that.....There is no hidden truth behind it.......And yes, it does apply to everyone. If you have things in your life that do not glorify the Lord as Savior, and that hinder you from excelling in your Christian walk, then you are sinning.....

Want scripture for that one.......here you go, "If you know the good that you ought to do, and do not do it, then you have sinned". If you know that you should not be watching rated "R" or even "PG-13" movies, then you sit down and watch it, then you are sinning.........

You say, "well, that is not my conviction"......Yes it is....It is everyne's conviction, we are just too hardened to hear the Holy Spirit calling us to live Holy...........Like I said, if you get closer to God than you are, then this will make sense.........

I know, now the preacher man is judging me.......Who does he think he is....doesn't he know "Judge not, lest ye be judged". I haven't judged you. You just judged yourself. The Bible says that you can tell a tree from the fruit that it bears.....Are you bearing good fruit?

Satan knows music, and he knows what makes you "Feel good"...His job is to distort the Word of God to fit the "circumstances"......It's wrong....

Let me say this loud and clear...... It is wrong to listen to secular music, and alot of so-called "Christian" bands are n't nothing but secualr rejects that didn't make it there......There is nothing about Jesus in any of their music, and to me, that is the one requirement for a christian band (Being a Christian)....If you ar elistening to Christian music, great, but know that it is glorifying God, not man.....If you are listening to secular music, pray that God will deliver you from that temptation. If you don't want to get delivered from it, then you really need to pray that God would come into your life and become Lord.........Because your conviction switch has been turned off!!!!!!!

Let the games begin !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mr. Green....23
(Pastor Don, if you really want to know).

[MRGREEN23]

theotherpete


{pete} i hate it when people say "at least they're doing something for God." if they suck, like some bands do, then its not glorifying God, because they are not using their talents effectively.


Your choice of words leads me to ask you one question....

How old are you????

Green

[smitty2622]

This subject can be very touchy, and is close to my heart. I love music all kinds of music, yes even country and classical. I have been one to fight vigorously for secular music even punk and metal, I have played in many of these types of bands. As a musician, I can’t discount the value or talent of secular artist, now here is the new part at least for me. I used to listen to Iron Maiden, AC/DC Sex pistols Dead Kennedy’s ect. I still listen to secular music but it is usually more Blues and Jazz oriented now days. Something I have always thought was this, all good things come from God correct? Music is good correct? So regardless of who does it the music is good, the message may have some problems, the artists lifestyles may have some problems, but please lets not just say secular music is bad because that’s an extreme and extremes ARE BAD…

[Brent]

Originally posted by theotherpete
i hate it when people say "at least they're doing something for God." if they suck, like some bands do, then its not glorifying God, because they are not using their talents effectively.

{pete}You're missing the point. If I am singing/playing/acting/performing it doesn't matter HOW bad I am to YOU. I can sing like Minnie Mouse and play guitar like fingernails scraping a blackboard...BUT....if my heart and my intentions are in the right place then God DOESN'T CARE what it sounds like as long as I'm doing it for Him and that's that. No if's, and's or but's about it. If you think I "suck" then that's your opinion, not God's....and NEWSFLASH...your opinion and favor isn't the one I'm looking for. I'm out to impress an audience of ONE and that One isn't of this earth.

Brent

[Brent]

Originally posted by MRGREEN23
God is not moving away from you.....He's as close to you as you'll allow Him to be.....I'll start off by saying Amen to that...that pretty much sums up the whole argument there if you'll think about it.

I posted this in the other debate about this, but I feel it's still relevant, especially in the light of some of what's been said. Check out www.philchalmers.com . He does music seminars called "Music To Die For". I think you folks should also look into his book (only $12) entitled "The Official 'I Don't Listen to the Lyrics' Handbook". He talks all about today's music (See the awesome Flash intro to his site) and how it affects people...he also dispels the 'But I don't listen to the lyrics...I like the music' myth (i.e. COPOUT) that so many people use. Good stuff.

Brent

[SnapCase]

Ah yes..the never ending "secular music" thread :D

Lets look at the Word of God:

"Everything is permissable for me" - but not everything is beneficial. "Evertying is permissible for me" - But I will not be mastered by anything...Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause him to fall...so whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God. 1 Corinithians 6:12; 8:13; 10:31

It's important to note that "everything is permissable for me" is in quotations. This is signifying that Paul is quoting most likely from a letter that the church sent them. So Paul here is refuting that 'everything is permissable'. So what does that mean? That means that not all things are permissable. Paul gives us a good outline of what definetly not allowed. Here are some questions concerning other topics not just secular music:

#1. "not everything is beneficial". Is it helpful - physically? Spiritually? Mentally?

#2. "I will not be mastered by anything." Does it bring me under its power?

#3. Does it cause a brother to fall into sin?

#4. Does it glorify God.

There you go. A self test straight from scripture.

[MRGREEN23]

Brent...


Thanks for the Support.........


punkrawk4jesus, pretty easy, but, the only thing about that is that most people are going to lye to themselves just to take away that conviction factor....


Mr. Green....23

[SnapCase]

Then in all honesty that is something that they need to work that out between them and God.

it's really hard to justify Eminem as beneificial to listen to, or some equally disgusting music with lots of profanities/vulgarness.

I'm not saying that a Christian can't listen to secular music. I'm saying that a Christian should be very...very selective in what they choose to listen to.

For instance. One of my favorite bands is New Found Glory. They are secular. However they are very very clean. There is only one instance on the entire cd that is objectable, so I don't listen to it. But the rest of the cd has no sex, alcohol, swearing..etc...

But like 98% of my cd's are Christian simply because I would rather hear a song about Jesus any day! It's uplifting and "beneficial".

[fenderjazzman]

You had some excellent points, Pastor. But I don't agree with the all-secular-music-is-bad idea. I DO believe that most secular music will hurt you before it helps you, but you've dismissed everything that's not Christian.

Originally posted by MRGREEN23
Am I saying that I am closer to God than you because I don't listen to secular music???? ...... Yes!!!!!!

Now that didn't fly with me. True, some secular music can keep you from getting closer to God, but you're talking about how close you are to Him compared to someone else. I believe that it's only God's place to say how close each of us is to Him. I don't think that's man's place at all.

And Christian music is a wonderful thing, which I love, and it's all I usually listen to. But I love jazz music too. God is showing me new things, and I'm talking with Him constantly and reading His word like never before, and honestly, And I don't see how Louie Armstrong is gonna keep me from having as close a walk as anyone else.

[smitty2622]

punkrawk4jesus: So what does that mean? That means that not all things are permissible.

Ah man you lost me? How does all things are permissible turn into not all things are permissible?? There are many paths to salvation; some people have to go a lot deeper into the pit before they realize they are even in the pit. Who knows what the final straw will be for a person. So these things that are not beneficial for some could be conceived as beneficial for others. One example how many times does a drug addict OD before they realize that Christ can take this pain away? In other words if someone OD’s then wakes up to God because of the experience then that overdose was a good thing, if they had never overdosed they may have never realized they needed Christ.

[AcousticChik]

I agree with fenderjazzman!

[MRGREEN23]

I was chomping at the bit waiting on someone to respond to that.....

I hope I can explain the meaning behind it.....And what I am trying to convey....

Someone comes into church and gets saved... They are new to Christianity...They know little....All they know is that they want to be more like Jesus, because they love that feeling that they get when they are in His presence..here is what I am saying....If I know God's word, and I know alot about it, then I have to apply it to my everyday life.....Now, the more I get in tune, and in line with God's word (ex. filtering out things that are not glorifying Him), then the closer I get to Him.......Like I said earlier, He is always there, but only as close as we allow Him to be. And the only reason I can testify to this is because I put it to the test....

I went a whole week of:

no TV
no Food, except water, and V8 juice.
no music, except praise and worship.

I didn't even work but a couple days that week. The rest of the time I spent interceeding......Now, at the end of that week, my convictions were different, my attitude was different, my outlook was different, and most importantly, my compassion, and concern for others was different.....I was so close to God, becuase I did the most "wanting" thing He has for us......

I just preached a sermon on "Consistency" last Wednesday night, and here was my main point:

Luke 10:38-42: story of Mary and Martha and Jesus at their house.....

Jesus told Martha that "only one thing was needed"...And that one thing is "Time in His presence".

I guaranty you, and you can quote me on it, that if you filter out everything but you and Christ, and get down to the "bare knuckles" of what Christ wants for you, then everyone's convictions are the same.....How we receive them is what is different.....The closer you are to God, the easier it is to receive those convictions....

I hope I didn't confuse you any more on this, but I do want everyone to understand what I am saying.

Yes, I know , not all secular music is bad.....But, that is a nother sermon, and , oh well, here goes....

Satan plants a seed. Look at the parable in the Bible of the owner who while he was sleeping, the enemy came in and planted weed among his wheat.....and then left.....

Now Satan does the same thing...We start sleeping (letting down our guard), and he slips in and just plants a little seed, and then leaves, and we don't even know he has been there. Well, it only takes a short time for that seed to grow, and it becomes weeds for everyone to see.....

Not all PG-13 movies are bad (ex. Carman's "the Champion"), but that doesn't mean I will permit myself to watch a few......

What I am saying is, just because no one has gotten eaten by a shark today, doesn't mean you should swim in the water where the "Beware of sharks" sign is......

Why take the chance on opening yourself up to something that could corrupt you, or be a bad influence on someone who knows you are a christian..........

One final thought that I will leave you with.....

What's it all worth in light of eternity...? What good could you be doing instead of debating with other christians about the same conviction?

Mr. Green....23

[SnapCase]

How does all things are permissible turn into not all things are permissible??

Look at what I said in the first post. Paul is simply quoting here. These are not Pauls words. He is quoting from another source. This source is most likely a letter written by the Corinithian church to Paul asking questions. Paul refers to this letter several times: "You wrote about" or "Now about..."

This is Pauls refute to the saying "Everything is permissable". He's giving guidelines to what is permissable and what is not. If we take the phrase "Everything is permissable" that leaves it wide open to anything you want. So obviously there has to be some guidelines.


I hope that explains it all. Any more questions let me know.

[SnapCase]

Pastor Don,

I agree with you 100%

But with all of this..it's a process. Holiness is a process that takes a loooong time to get into. It takes discipline and lots and lots of prayer. I just got done reading the book "Pursuit of Holiness" by Jerry Bridges. Awesome book!

But these things take a long time and take a lot of maturity to understand and be able to follow.

I look back at the first couple weeks I was a Christian and it kind of confuses me. I don't understand how I thought the things I did then were ok when they were sins. It came with study and getting into that relationship with Jesus that I figured out what I needed to do and what not to do. I learn new stuff every week that I shouldnt do. SOmething that I thought was ok the week before. it's a process.

[MRGREEN23]

You nailed it, my brother!!!!!!!

It is a very dificult process, but one that is required of all who "Chase after the Son".............

That's why I said, "any person CAN be closer to God than any other person". It all depends on the depth of their sacrifice.......

And yes, it is very hard to accomplish, but once you decide to follow hard....., then your convictions start to coincide with those of Christ, and hopefully, when a person gets to that point, you will know what I am talking about.

That is why this is a touchy subject.. People want to serve God, and hang onto everything else.....

It doesn't work that way..."Can a man serve two masters"....
God won't play second fiddle to any idle.....

Mr. Green....23
(Pastor Don)

[smitty2622]

10
nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
11
And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
12
"Everything is permissible for me"--but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible for me"--but I will not be mastered by anything.
13
"Food for the stomach and the stomach for food"--but God will destroy them both. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.
14
By his power God raised the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us also.
15
Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never!
16
Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, "The two will become one flesh."[2]
17
But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit.
18
Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body.
19
Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;
20
you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.

Ok this does look like a strong warning against sexual immortality. But all other sins are outside the body. And don’t seem to be condemned badly here? I’m learning all the time so I could be off here but I still love music all kinds of music, God gave me this talent and love of music, so am I supposed to ignore some of the best musicians in the world? I mean there are many great musicians who don’t play for the lord, shouldn’t we take there inspirations and turn it around to praise God?

[MRGREEN23]

I still love music all kinds of music, God gave me this talent and love of music, so am I supposed to ignore some of the best musicians in the world? I mean there are many great musicians who don’t play for the lord, shouldn’t we take there inspirations and turn it around to praise God?

Smitty,

To be honest with your question No, we shouldn't listen to them, regardless of thier ability....All good things come from God, and what we choose to do with those good things is up to us.....

And if God gives Eric Clapton the ability to jam, and He has given him that, then Eric has the decision to make with that ability....

He chooses to serve Satan (A man cannot serve two masters) If he is not serving God, then he is serving Satan....Sad but true....

that means you let it go......

But, like I said earlier, it takes a big sacrifice to do so.


Mr. Green....23

[jarsgirl86]

I agree with mr.Green, though you may enjoy many of the secular music out tehre adn they are usually very talented i won't lie as the weed seed they eventually get into your head i used to only listen to secular music and then last year right before Christmas i had filled my cd case adn it was all secular i took a look at what I was listening to adn realized though they could sing adn really pay it was all garbage when i looked at the lyrics. I then decided that i woudl make a goal of replaceing all of my secular cd's with Christian it was really hard to do especially when it came to getting rid of stuff liek my Bif Naked cd which was my favorite btu after a while of only listening to Christian musci i realized how awsoem it really was adn how I haddnt' given it enough credit before. If anyone really wants to persue gettign closer to God through teh music they put through their head then i challenge them to do the same as i did replace all the secular cd's you have with Christian it really works, it is a huge step to take adn and extremely hard oen to but it all comes back to how close we want to let GOd to our life adn if you listen to as much music as me then it is constantly playing it seeps into your spiritual life more than you woudl think and this is an awsome way to get through it.This is an awsoem way to let him knwo you are letting him have that part of your life adn giving it to him. Also remember to pray teh He woudl show you stuff through the music and even if you dont' think you are getting anythign out of it then remember that it is still glorifying to God because you are obeying him in letting him have that part of your life.
*court.*
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[elifan86]

Mr Green, Pastor Don, whoever you are, I was just wondering, what kind of music DO you listen to? Probably the Gaithers and George Bev Sheay:rolleyes: :p :eek:

[MRGREEN23]

Mr Green, Pastor Don, whoever you are, I was just wondering, what kind of music DO you listen to? Probably the Gaithers and George Bev Sheay

My musical standards are very high.........

I don't listen to a CD before I look at the words of each song, which tells me the message behind it, I look at who wrote the songs, and I am very picky about the style I listen to.....

I don't like Contemporary music (ex. SCC, Greg Long, etc.)

Only becaues I do not like that style of music, it does nothing for me... I do, however respect their ability to write catchy songs that minister to new Christians.

What do I like....?.........Well,

I love Third Day, Skillet, Jars of Clay, Lincoln Brewster, Lindell Cooley, Hillsongs, MercyMe, Clint Brown, etc.

Now, to a more serious question that I have with you.....
What's wrong with George Beverly Shea, or the Gaither's? I can tell by your statement that you must be pretty young....Let me tell you that Christian music would not exist if it were not for these two men (Geo. Bev. and Bill Gaither).......They are the foundation of what YOU listen to today........And although I do not listen to Southern Gospel, I do respect it, and like you, I too can form an opinion about someone who listens to these two men. But instead of thinking that they are old and boring, and probably sits in their room all day reading thier Bible, I would say that they are very inteligent, and understand the hardship that got us the great music we have today.

I won't go to a Southern Gospel concert, because I don't like the style. Also, I wouldn't go see Steven Curtis, or Point of Grace.....I don't like that style....But I respect them, and I would go hear Geo. Bev. sing simply because of what he has done.....

Now, what does the type of music I listen to have to do with anything I have said......Do you think that I am saying this stuff because I don't know what kind of music is out there. Of course I do, I am a youth Pastor, and I hear "junk" everyday........I know what kids listen to, and that's why I make such a great stand on this issue........................

Now, like I said a few posts before, when you get here, you'll understand......

Mr. Green....23

[smitty2622]

MRGREEN23: And if God gives Eric Clapton the ability to jam, and He has given him that, then Eric has the decision to make with that ability....

Boy do you know where to throw your punches! I love Blues, and Rock music more than any other styles. Eric is one of my favorite players; he puts the two styles together so seamlessly. You know the song ridding with the king? It’s with BB King and Eric Clapton, anyway every time I here this song all I can think of is ridding with Jesus. I wanted to do this song at church and just change the talking part to include a witness to the lord instead of BB’s story. Now I thought taking songs like this and making small changes to glorify our Lord was a good idea and would give people music they can relate too, but I take it you don’t think this is a wise idea correct?

[Mickey]

To be honest with your question No, we shouldn't listen to them, regardless of thier ability....All good things come from God, and what we choose to do with those good things is up to us.....

This reminds me of something Eli told us while he was doing a concert recently. Keep in mind, Eli has had a rough life - drugs, sex, etc. His concerts and testimony are amazing - if you ever get a chance to see him perform, DO IT. Anyhow, his point was that sinning is fun. Having sex is fun. Shooting drugs is fun. Getting drunk is fun. He in no way implied that any of us should do any of those things, but he tells it like it is. Of course, he also went on to give the points why we shouldn't do those things (morals, God, risks, etc), but it made a great impact.

I think the same goes here. Just because someone is very musically talented doesn't necessarily justify us listening to them. (As a side note, I'm not getting into whether listening to Eric Clapton or anyone is a "sin" or not, but the point is the same.) If you find it fun to listen a artist/band just because of great guitar riffs or a nice beat, it doesn't necessarily make it right.

I'm starting to confuse myself now, so I'd better stop. :) But does that make sense?

IHL,
Mickey

[MRGREEN23]

Congrads to Mickey on getting married.......


smitty

Now I thought taking songs like this and making small changes to glorify our Lord was a good idea and would give people music they can relate too, but I take it you don’t think this is a wise idea correct?

I have heard the song, and it is great. I, too, grew up on Clapton, and I love to hear a great blues guitar player......I still stop when I'm walking through the fair with my kids, or through some place when I hear some Claptin, or anything that I used to listen to, because I grew up on it, and it was a large part of me.

But to answer your question, I would not do it.....I know other bands cover songs....DC Talk, Third Day, Audio Adrenaline, and that is their conviction.... I personally wouldn't do it..... First of all, it is very creative to take a secular song and make it relate to Christ. I do admit that, but I think (and this is my personal opinion) that we are to be set apart, and like Mickey said, it is fun, and feels good, but like the Bible says, "In the end, it leads to destruction". There are many factors here. Most importantly to me, would be this....

If I am covering a song that some artist did many years ago, as DC Talk does with "40", or "End of the World", and someone is in my audience that is not a Christian, and knows that song....They can form two opinions of me....Either they get curious about God, and want to know more, or they realize that there is nothing different in the church, so why should they commit. And that is a chance that I am not willing to take.......Not to mention the seed it plants within yourself... Satan plants that seed then you do one song, and some people come up to you and say, "wow, that was cool. Do you know this song.....", and all of a sudden you are found wanting more and more to explore the posibilities with each song you hear, and with each one, your standards lower as to the acceptibility of it......Before long, you are singing "What's this life for", and having people raise their hands to worship to a blasphemous song..........The intentions of the song are good, but, I'm sure you've heard this one, the road to Hell is paved with Good intentions.....(not my quote, I borrowed it).

So,Smitty, I would not risk it. There are too many factors in the light of eternity that weigh in the balance... And we are not after man's approval, but God's.....

Mr. Green....23

[smitty2622]

I do see your point, and I fully understand how things get corrupted one step at a time. I am still very new to the Christian music scene; as a matter of fact I’m pretty new to the idea of being a real Christian also. I consider myself a teenager in my walk with Christ and as we all know that can be a confusing time. I’ve been playing with our church band for about 5 months now and before that I never played anything that would even remotely praise or worship our Lord. It’s so amazing to be able to do something good with my talents instead of encouraging people to party and have sex as often as possible. I tried for a short time to find or start a Christian rock band, but God never brought that opportunity to me, so I figure he must be keeping me away from old habits and attitudes. The first thing I did with the praise band I play with now was bible school. After the week of bible school, we did the music for the Sunday morning service, and one of the local pastors told me it was great to have a guitarist that could play lead so well playing with the church band. It was a nice complement, but afterwards I thought hey this guy missed the whole point! I didn’t want him to see me but to see the Lord through my music. So in the Sunday services I don’t do much lead playing at all as a matter of fact I do very little to none. Also my wife and her friend told me I dance and move around too much during the service, so now I stand in the back behind everyone else. You can see me dancing and playing but I’m not out front where it could distract someone from the message! I’ve tried not dancing or moving but I just can’t do it, the music moves me it always has even if I’m in the pews I still cant sit still when the music starts, yea even old organ hymns make me want too dance and play. Anyway I’m rambling here a bit, my point is I listen to play less and less secular music all the time so at some time I may be at the point you guys are at but for now I’m still struggling some with this secular music stuff and trying to get it all straight in my head. I want to glorify God with my music more than anything, I’ve glorified Satan way too much in my past and I want nothing to do with that anymore!!!

Hey Mickey, who’s this Eli person? Sounds like I could really relate to this guy and would like to check out some of his music?

[MRGREEN23]

Smitty, I know where you are at......Been there....

As far as the dancing and moving around........You'd be a minority in my church if you didn't dance and move around.....

Some songs I can barely play, because I am jumping around so much..........When we do "This is how we overcome", I start spinning with the music, and have never gotten my guitar chord caught up in my feet or anything.......But, our sanctuary Worship team are very open with thier emotions while they play. It's good to lead through worship as a band, and not just sitting there following the worship leader.......There are times when we just play general chord walks, and worship, and cry, and there have been times where I have taken my guitar off and put it down, and just knelt right there on stage......

So, if your dancing has distracted some people, I have one thing to say to them, and it is scriptural.....

"Get out of the window".........See 2 Samuel 6:14-16..

Michal, (ironically called the Daughter of Saul here) was one of David's wives. She sees the King, not dressed in King's robes, but in a Priest's Ephod dancing before the Lord as he rejoiced in the return of the ark of the covenant. Michal despised him for this because it wasn't "orderly manner" for a King.....

But look what David said in verses 21-23.....

He become even more undignified in "Man's" eyes.....And God cursed Michal to never have children because of her stiff-neck attitude.


So if they feel uncomfortable, or distracted, then you tell them to focus on the Lord, and join you in the dance........

Mr. Green....23

[smitty2622]

I would love to see everyone dancing in the aisles! Last week we had a young lady show up for church who was clapping and singing, dancing a little, in the pews. It was great to see someone enjoy the service and have fun doing it. I know the girl she’s the niece of a good friend. I asked if she would be back but she lives too far away. We have been trying to get the congregation into it but sometimes it’s like pulling teeth. I don’t think people around here are used to celebrating rather than just listening. Where do you go to church?

[csnerd]

It's also a lot of getting out of their comfort zone. I came from a Lutheran church where you DO NOT clap, raise your hands, dance, etc. Then i my dad started going to a charismatic church, and I flipped out when I came with him. It took some time, but now I'm one of those ppl. People are still stuck in the old mindset "You sit, stand and sing hymns at church, nothing else."

[MRGREEN23]

My church is called "Fountain of Life" church. We are "Assembly of God".....

It is very worship oriented.....But we do have stricter guidelines for membership than most A/G churches (don't no one get offended by the A/G symbol. It is the official symbol for Assembly of God) (We say it stands for "All the Gospel") We don't allow membership to people who smoke or drink and do not show and effort for letting it go......The way we do it, is "If you are representing our church, you better be representing Christ"....And He didn't smoke......


It hasn't always been that way.....But our Pastor has caught a vision, and has trusted me and my youth band to teach our sanctuary worship team some new ways of worshiping (we do not have an official "Music Minister") So, since then, we have a beautiful service. We open the altars to anyone who would like to worhip from the altars, since it is worship, why not worship from the altars.....

It has taken many nights of prayer in the altars to get to this level....

We have two Sunday morning services, and one on Sunday night (which a lot of churches now are quiting Sunday night service).....

My youth services are on Wednesday night, and we start at 6:30 so we get about 2 1/2 hours for Youth.....

But, like I said, it has taken a long time to acchieve this level.....

But it is acchievable (sp?)

By the way, have you read "God Chasers" by Tommy Tenney...?

If not, I highly recommend it.....It will change your whole outlook on every aspect of church.

Especially chapter 4 ( I think) . It talks about dead men seeing His face.

Mr. Green....23

[SnapCase]

By the way..Happy Birthday MRGREEN23!!!! It's pretty awesome to share almost the same birthday with someone!

[MRGREEN23]

Thanks Dude!!!!!!!!

Today is my Birthday.......I'm officially old.......27 to be exact....

Happy belated B'day to you.....



mr. Green....23

[smitty2622]

27,, old??? That’s ok little puppy you’re not quite old yet. .;) Happy Birthday to you and Punk!!

Your church sounds really cool, I’d still have a little work to do before I could join I guess. I still smoke, but only Tobacco witch by the way is quite the accomplishment considering just a few years ago if it didn’t move I’d smoke it!! Still working on the tobacco issue, I am down to 1 pack of ultra lights a day, but haven’t yet been able to kick it completely. When you’ve been smoking for 27 years it’s pretty tough to put them down. I’ll look for that book; maybe it will help with getting our service to worship more. We have a music minister, who’s been trying to get the congregation to be more active in worship but I guess it’s been tough. We do a lot of different music some hymens, and some new, we do 5 new songs every week most of us site read so if we have the music we can usually pull it off without much practice, it nice to play with all adults who’ve been playing most of their lives. One Sunday I heard a guy snoring during the service, I wanted to go wake him up very abruptly! But my wife talked me out of it. I think I’m about ready to take a more active roll in the preparation of the services; I have some songs I want to introduce to the band to see how they feel about them. I would like to have some Saturday night jam sessions also, but I’m not sure how that will go over. We have some very conservative members. The early service on Sunday morning is very traditional, I play in the 11:00 service witch is a contemporary service. As long as we are mentioning age I’m 37 years young

[elifan86]

well, Mr Green, I'm 19, and I personally don't like The Gaithers and Geo. Bev Shey because their music is crap (my opinion ;) )
I DON"T think that CCM and Christian rock was brought about by them. It was brought about by Kieth Green, 2nd Chapter of Acts, Larry Norman, Gene Eugene, etc...and The Jesus Movement of the 70's...(maybe a little by the gaithers, but by no means Georgie). You have great taste in music, I might add (Third Day is THE BEST), but I agree with you about 90%. Like I said before, if it measures up to Phil. 4:8, then its fine, whether it be Christian or not. There are a lot of U2 and Collective Soul stuff that is fine. Would you not listen to the "Star Spangled Banner" because it is not expressedly Christian? A song can be honoring to God, even if it is non-Christian, if it speaks of things such as patrotism and love in it's proper context (but, unfortunately, non-Christan music like that is hard to come by). Anyway, that is pretty cool that you are a youth pastor. My uncle is one, and I hope to be one someday as well. God bless ya!:D

[MRGREEN23]

Well, "crap" is such a harsh word......

And by the way, If you look at the influences of such artists as Keith Green, and Larry Norman, you'll find Gaither there......

Anyway, off that subject, that is your opinion, and you are entitled to it....

Smitty,

I’d still have a little work to do before I could join I guess. I still smoke, but only Tobacco witch by the way is quite the accomplishment considering just a few years ago if it didn’t move I’d smoke it!! Still working on the tobacco issue, I am down to 1 pack of ultra lights a day, but haven’t yet been able to kick it completely. When you’ve been smoking for 27 years it’s pretty tough to put them down

You could be a member in our church.....As long as you were making an effort to quit.....We have a few people that go to our church that smoke, and don't care....They are not members, and are not allowed to participate in ministry because they openly condone it, but if someone is trying to let go of something, then, we have no right to deny them membership to our church...."Let he without sin cast the first stone"......."Ironically enough, that statement was made by the only one there who qualified to cast the stone........WOW, such compassion.....That's what I long to have......


Keep striving for your goal, and you really should check out "God Chasers"...It's not that long of book to read, but I am reading it for the second time now.....It changed the way I hungered after things.....


In Christ,

Mr. Green....23

[Jshook84]

Green, i totally agree with your view on this subject. the word christian means "little Christ" so we should try to be like him. so whenever we are about to listen to a cd or watch a movie we should ask ourselves "would Jesus be doing this?"

[MRGREEN23]

I've never heard the phrase "little Christ", but I guess it works....

Thatnks for the word,

Mr. Green....23

[AcousticChik]

Before even reading the rest of one of your posts I had to say this..You are saying that you do not take people into your church that drink, smoke, etc..so..I'm not gonna put any words in your mouth so what are you saying..should sinners stay out of your church..because a sinner is not like christ..but doesn't God want us to DRAW those people in to the churches and influence them..I attened a church of God and we allow anyone who walks through those doors to come in and experience the presence of God...please explain this to me because right now it doesn't sound to Godly ...thanks

[Brent]

Originally posted by AcousticChik
Before even reading the rest of one of your posts I had to say this..You are saying that you do not take people into your church that drink, smoke, etc..so..I'm not gonna put any words in your mouth so what are you saying..should sinners stay out of your church..because a sinner is not like christ..but doesn't God want us to DRAW those people in to the churches and influence them..I attened a church of God and we allow anyone who walks through those doors to come in and experience the presence of God...please explain this to me because right now it doesn't sound to Godly ...thanks I think you didn't read close enough... He said that they don't allow those kinds of people to be MEMBERS of the church. He didn't say they were not welcome to attend. As a matter of fact, he explicitly said that they *do* have some of those people in their church, they just are not allowed to "participate in ministry"....which to me means that they are not allowed to hold a position of authority, committee member, etc. But they are still quite welcome to come. This is just how I viewed it anyway.


Smitty: I figured Elifan86 would answer your questing seeing as how ELI is in their name, but I guess not. Eli is a Christian music artist on Forefront Records. He plays acoustic upbeat stuff is what I would call it...something along those lines anyway. You can find his website at http://www.elinews.com/

Brent

[AcousticChik]

that's what I'm saying!! You don't allow people to JOIN or "be a member" of your church if they don't meet your standards? You drink..no memebership...you smoke no membership...you this that..etc..so if a person that is planning to attend you church more wants to become a member they cannot be a member if they are not as spirtually grown as the rest of the church which don't drink or smoke..? MR. Green please respond..thanks for helping me point out the rest Brent

[Jshook84]

what green said was that if they have these bad habits and show no sign that they want to quit then they can not join. but if they want to quit and are trying to then they can become members. thats what i read.

[smitty2622]

Hey Brent thanks, I forgot I even asked that question, got caught up in the other stuff. Anyway thanks again I’ll check them out..

[MRGREEN23]

By no way do we turn people away....

What I thought I was saying (obviously not clear enough) was that we will not allow someone to become a member in our church if they are openly condoning or participating in acts that are harmful to themselves or others.....And that is not limited to just drinking or smoking.....

That goes for Smoking, Drinking, Racism, Hatred, Abusiveness, Whatever the case....

We embrace the sinner.........WE will not tolerate the sin, that is why the Holy Spirit convicts you, so that you stop sinning......

If you are representing me and my church, and you are no different from the world, then what do you have to offer them that is different..??????

But, if you regognize that you have a problem, and put forth an effort to quit, then we embrace that, and support that and do everything we can to help you....

Please don't misunderstand me.....

My heart is evangelism, and compassion for lost ones......But, this isn't pre-school. This is Warfare !!!!

Membership has it's priviledges.


Mr. Green....23

[AcousticChik]

If you will read up to the my last post on this..i wrote about membership too..I realize that you have a heart of worship and would like for your church to represent Holiness..therefore having holy people to be the memebers...BUT I still have not heard of a good reason why you will not take in to membership a person that has sin in their life...I can talk to my youth pastor about this if you'd like to drop it..I'm not trying to dispute you or anything..just a confused girl..NOT in pre-school by the way..I didn't get that part!
I'm very strong in God and I have been saved for 15 years! God Bless

[SnapCase]

How old were you when you were saved?????

[AcousticChik]

I've been saved my entire life..so that would be since I've been born..I followed God when I came out and I still allow him to place my feet in the footprints he's made for me now...I don't want anyone to start anything about your young or anything NOT SAYING YOU WILL..b/c God can use a young child as much as an old one..I'm spiritually grown enough i think! :D

[Brent]

Let's remember this thread is about secular music and not about our denominational choices. I question the "saved from birth" thing that was just said, but again, this is on music so let's keep it there.

However, feel free to start a discussion on this in the Everything Christian forum if you'd like...or Theology/Apologetics/Evangelism...or whatever it's called now. Probably the Evangelism forum would be best. In fact, I would encourage you to do so...and leave a link to the thread here. This is GREAT for a topic of discussion, but just not in this thread if you understand what I'm getting at. My job is to keep it all organized nice and tidy! :D

Brent

[fenderjazzman]

Back to music... ahem... I have to agree with elifan86... except I don't like that blasted "C" word. :rolleyes: There IS (in my opinion) such a thing as secular music that isn't harmful spiritually. Sure, it may be more productive to listen to praise and worship, but it's not gonna hurt you to hear something else. You mentioned stopping to listen to Eric Clapton earlier (I think). Is that different or something? My dad is a pastor in the Church of God, and he occassionally enjoys listening to an oldies station. And he is greatly blessed and used. I know we differ in opinion; just had to get that out. It's quite admirable that you strive to set yourself apart though.

[soulforChrist]

i don't think that you should close off nonchristian music
becuase i hate it because some of my friends wont listen to any nonchristian music and they think badly about me becuase i listen to a little bit of it

[MRGREEN23]

becuase i hate it because some of my friends wont listen to any nonchristian music and they think badly about me becuase i listen to a little bit of it

Well, sounds to me like Conviction...........



Chik,

just a confused girl..NOT in pre-school by the way..I didn't get that part!

What I said, had nothing to do with you, I was saying that most people in church are so sitff-necked, they are like pre-school children who whine and cry when the teacher makes them share their toys.............That's all...


Fenderjazzman,

My dad is a pastor in the Church of God, and he occassionally enjoys listening to an oldies station. And he is greatly blessed and used

Wow !!!! That is awesome... But my question is this...Just me thinking out loud........If your dad listens to Oldies, and that is what he probably grew up on, and he is blessed and anointed as you say he is, that is great, but, just imagine the anointing he could have if he stopped those "melancholy" trips down memory lane.....

It would be the same as me (being a youth Pastor) listening to what I grew up on. Bands like Megadeth, Iron Maiden, Led Zepplin, Ozzy Ozborne........Trips down memory lane......

I know, oldies don't corrupt your mind, but my point is the principal behind it.....I'm not digging against your pops...

Alright, let the thrashings begin!!!!!!!

Brent, thanks for keeping this train on the right track, because it sure is picking up some speed !!!!!!!1



Mr. Green....23

[smitty2622]

Ok you asked for it. ;)

Is cutting out secular music really a good idea? Well lets see do you go to secular schools, secular grocery stores, read secular books, have secular friends, or buy secular gas, eat at secular restaurants, watch secular TV, so you see this whole secular non secular thing can really get out of hand. Are we not supposed to show the world Jesus light? If we are not in the world how can we show the light? IF we run around in a Christian bubble we cant help anyone find there way because we are only around people who already know the way. Music today is a very important part of people’s lives; young people identify themselves by the type of music they listen to. IF we listen to there music it can give us a good insight into their life. Some kids into punk, and mean he’s into it! This kid probably doesn’t care if people do drugs have sex kill animals and all kinds of other twisted stuff. Now this doesn’t mean that kid is doing all this stuff, but he can identify with it thus making it ok in his mind. I would say if you don’t know something about his music and the bands he likes your probably not going to get this kid to even talk to you let alone actually listen to what you have to say. Also not all-secular music is bad. There are a lot of good fun secular songs that people like, and I don’t think there is anything wrong with that.

[fenderjazzman]

Wow! This is getting fun! :D

Mr. Green... Thrashing time! ;)
No offense taken to my dad or anything. OK, here goes... So if someone listens to oldies, the local all-polka-all-the-time station, or Serenades of the South American Rainforests, and God disapproves, would He not let that person know that it's hindering his relationship? I understand that a person can ignore conviction and convince themselves that whatever the problem is is OK, but, speaking for myself now, I haven't felt any kind of conviction upon listening to, say, the Macarena... OK, let me pick something a little better. I like Bob James (a jazz musician). I like listening to his style of play because I'm a musician, and I like to learn from the best and most talented. And if anything has hindered me from getting closer to God, it's not Bob James. Perhaps listening to jazz while I know God is telling me to read my Bible. We all struggle with things and mess up, but the last thing I worry about is the music I'm listening to (because I only listen to Christian music and some jazz/blues/Songbirds at Sunrise).
If the "secular" music I enjoy doesn't represent evil (or usually even have words), why is it any different from... oh, say, ping-pong. Tabletennis doesn't give glory to God. It's harmless entertainment... like Bob James.
And, Smitty, I don't think Mr. Green is talking about identifying with unsaved people. I believe he's referring to what you listen to for your personal enjoyment. And regardless of what bad music they may listen to, it's our responsibility as Christians not to listen to it.

[smitty2622]

Fenderjazzman: Smitty, I don't think Mr. Green is talking about identifying with unsaved people. I believe he's referring to what you listen to for your personal enjoyment. And regardless of what bad music they may listen to, it's our responsibility as Christians not to listen to it.

My point here was that a Christian that listens to say Punk Rock will have an easier time relating to the kid mentioned in my post. I don’t like punk personally; I used to listen to it before I grew up.:D And the more we describe or label things as secular or non secular, the more we get away from our target audience for Christ’s message. Personally I like Blues Jazz and Rock, and I don’t really see a problem with listening to those styles of music.

[Jeduthun]

This conversation looked interesting, and I couldn't resist jumping in with a little mind-blowing thought I learned recently.

We've been discussing whether it's all right for Christians to listen to music that isn't "Sacred", which we're referring to as "secular." But if you look in a dictionary, you will find that the word "Sacred" has not one but two antonyms. If something is not sacred, it may be either "secular" or "profane."

Further, "secular" and "profane" are not synonyms for "not Christian." Profane (as an adjective--nothing to do with swearing) refers to the things that go in direct opposition to God's standards of holiness. Secular simply means anything that doesn't mention God either way.

If we accept these definitions, the whole debate becomes next to irrelevant. (That's the mind-blowing part.) It is obviously wrong for a Christian to do something that goes in opposition to Christ's standards, and it is obviously permissible for a Christian to do something that doesn't make a direct reference to God.

Things that don't make direct reference to God can still bring glory to Him (refer to Paul's statement, "Whether you eat or drink, etc."), though their value in ministry is limited for the same reason. Things that violate God's standards, on the other hand, can never bring glory to Him except by being bad examples.

It would seem that the question of whether Christians should use secular music is beside the point. We should really be asking how much of what we call secular music is really profane!

Let me know what you think!

[fenderjazzman]

I think you're pretty smart. You deserve some cake!

[smitty2622]

I can agree with just about everything you said except this one statement.

Things that violate God's standards, on the other hand, can never bring glory to Him except by being bad examples.

God can and does use things that are not up to his standards to bring people to him.
I seriously doubt if any of us actually measure up to Gods standards but he uses all of us.
;)

[jarsgirl86]

Smitty, I understand where you are comming from wen it comes to listening to and beign around secular stuff no matter what especially whe it comes to hwo you compared it to buy secular groceries, secular gas, btu i think what is tryign to be said is be in the world not of the world you can be in teh secular world with out participateing in it's society
><> ><> ><>

[smitty2622]

I don’t know, if you are alive and living on earth then you are a member of society. The difference is the way you live and relate to your fellow man. You could be a very bright light when you are in a place with no other light source. If your at a concert and everyone’s getting high cursing, and being generally unruly, don’t you think it’s gona stand out when you pass the joint without taking a hit, or you language is totally different than anyone else’s? You know someone just may want to know why you are so different.

[fenderjazzman]

But you're putting your spiritual well-being on the line like that. And what about the people that know you're a Christian and see you in that kind of place? And that would be just walking right into Satan's domain. I wouldn't put my head in a lion's mouth unless I was SURE God was telling me to do it.

[AcousticChik]

Wow, this conversation has developed! I agree with Fenderjazzman!

BTW If my pastor (fenders dad) is listening to any kind of other music other than christian it's something that he could listen to infront of God believe me. Not only would his spirit not allow it, but his WIFE wouldn't! lol There a great family!

hmm...music without words..good one! lol..that just CAN'T be harmful to your spiritual growth. :D

[fenderjazzman]

I miss Mr. Green...

Those pastors are always too busy.

[smitty2622]

Fenderjazzman: But you're putting your spiritual well-being on the line like that.

You put your spiritual well being on the line every time you walk out the door. The world is not a safe place.

Fenderjazzman: And what about the people that know you're a Christian and see you in that kind of place?

What’s the problem? We can’t go to concerts? Can you think of a place that needs Christ more? Maybe they will talk to you about it giving you the chance to witness for Christ. Don’t hide your light let it shine so bright there’s no question.

Fenderjazzman: that would be just walking right into Satan's domain. I wouldn't put my head in a lion's mouth unless I was SURE God was telling me to do it.

We do this every day! Just by going to school, or work. If we live this way we cant do anything for the fear of running into one of Satan’s temptations.

[AcousticChik]

hmmph..guess we aren't done with this..:)

Smitty:What's the problem? We can't go to concerts?

That's not what was exactly said...if your gonna put yourself in the place of going to a concert WHERE someone would be doing the things mentioned that's up to you..you witness where you want...but its not very likely that your gonna see a christian person going to some concert like mentioned so he/she(the christian) can see how many people they can witness to. Yeah it would be a great place to spread the word of christ..but what's being said is WHAT happens when one of the people KNOWING you and your "christian" way sees YOU hanging around the people that would be passing this "joint" or listening to "that" music? Wouldn't give them such a great christian perspective of you then would it? I'll stick to my christian concerts and witness there..not everyone that goes to a christian concert is necessarily saved..so if they see you praising God through the music and raising your hands..that's witness enough, I think. :) that goes to your saying Smitty:"Don't hide your light let it shine so bright there's no question"... yes let it shine where there is no question, but also don't put yourself in a predicament where it would have to be questioned.
Which goes to what Fenderjazz man said.
Fenderjazzman:"I wouldn't put my head in a lions mouth unless I was SURE God was telling me to do it."

If needed I'm prepared for correction...so feel free:)

[smitty2622]

AcousticChik: WHAT happens when one of the people KNOWING you and your "christian" way sees YOU hanging around the people that would be passing this "joint" or listening to "that" music?

Well let’s see, who did Christ hang out with? Tax collectors, and prostitutes; was that the wrong place for Christ to be?

AcousticChik: Wouldn't give them such a great christian perspective of you then would it?

Why not? If your not participating in the bad behavior, then what would they have to say?

AcousticChik: I'll stick to my christian concerts and witness there..not everyone that goes to a christian concert is necessarily saved..so if they see you praising God through the music and raising your hands..that's witness enough, I think.

I don’t have a problem with that that is also a great witness. I just don’t want to see Christians hide from the rest of the world.

AcousticChik: yes let it shine where there is no question, but also don't put yourself in a predicament where it would have to be questioned.

Do we question people’s relationship with God just because they go to a secular concert? If it is questioned you just got the chance to answer the questions, and maybe strike some interest. No real need for correction just some food for thought.

[AcousticChik]

God didn't "hang out" with those types of people..He preached to them and witnessed to them..but he didn't "hang" with them!
And I've been taught by quite a few people that you can earn a rep. by the people that you hang around..so..

No you don't necessarily have to question the persons realationship with God because they are at a concert..depends on WHAT concert and WHAT they are doing!

[SnapCase]

God didn't "hang out" with those types of people..He preached to them and witnessed to them..but he didn't "hang" with them!

Hm...I'm not sure about that. I think Jesus purposely went to those people to prove a point. He wanted to prove to the Pharisees what needed to be done and that it was the sick that needed a doctor(Matthew 9:12). Notice that when Jesus is with one of these sinners..he doesnt bring up the sin until someone else brings it up (Luke 19).

I think Jesus' primary concern with being with sinners was to bring them to repentence, then to generate controvesy with the Pharisees. But I do think its interesting that Jesus doesn't bring up their sin until someone else does.

And I've been taught by quite a few people that you can earn a rep. by the people that you hang around..so..

This is a integrity issue. If someone is known for being a Christian who is devote, this wouldn't be an issue. However if a person earns a reputation, it is most likely because they have held this reputation before. Either way it is very judgemental and thats just wrong.

[Mr. Squirrel]

OK... I'm the member formally known as fenderjazzman. I'm all for going out into the world and being an example for the lost. That's not a bad thing.
We can't avoid the world. We aren't to be hermits, keeping the love of Christ to ourselves, but we are supposed to be careful with what kind of relationships we have with the ungodly... "Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?" (2 Cor. 6:14)
True, Jesus did seek out the lost (tax collectors, prostitutes, etc.), but Jesus only did what the Father did or showed Him to do. (John 5:17-20) Jesus went to minister to them, not go to where they are and appear as one of them, and He did so by the Father's will. You may pass up a joint at a rock concert, but I can assure you that's not gonna tell somebody that you're a Christian there on duty. And I can just imagine how stupid one would look going around to people there saying "Jesus loves you." That's no different from going to a keg party and doing the same thing.
If God tells you specifically to go into a nest of demons, and you know it's Him, I'm sure that would make a reasonable exception, but that's between you and God.
As for judging one another, it's wrong for us to judge, yeah. But Christians and sinners alike are watching you like hawks whether you know it or not, and they are constantly questioning your faith. That's a key reason why so many people don't want to follow Christ. They see "believers" doing things and going to places that aren't holy. Set yourself apart.
Run from temptation. The Bible says we should pray for God to lead use from temptation. Don't use it as a tool to show your Christian strength.

[AcousticChik]

EXACTLY!!! YES YES!!! :D THANK YOU!!

VERY well said!

[AcousticChik]

well guess this is dead...needless to say..thank God

hee hee

*~AC~*

[maurpunk]

[i]

And no, not all "secular" music is good. But most christian music is unoriginal and uncreative (with the exception of a small handfull of bands). I listen to what I deem to be good music.

[/B]

ahah!
what are u saying!
theres a lot of christian band that are really good.and probably better than secular.
for example p.od,they became famous by mtv,and a lot of people really like their music,but they only dont like them because their lyrics(but no one care)or dont like the rock.
if some bands like philmore or relient k,or blindside or ghoti hook become famous,they will all prefer em and no the secular
like a 75 percent of christian bands made more"music" than some secular artist like limp bizkit,his guitarris never studied guitar,he doesnt know,they only fu.. and say bad words,thats why more people like em.
just think...

[maurpunk]

Originally posted by elifan86
Like someone posted this before, I use Philipians 4:8 as my standard. Bands like Marylin Manson and Eminem I think everyone can agree would cause spiritual harm, but bands I like such as U2 and Collective Soul are fine.
oh yea,im agree,
creed wouldnt cause spiritual harm,same as ..,i dont know,maybe goood chalotte or linkin park are fine.

[Scott]

where did this spring from? Did it get moved into here or have i just been ignoring it?

[nestamanchris]

It vanished out of thin air... somehow I think if it doesn't die it'll be somewhat onesided (this is the "secular" music forum...).

[Unregistered]

Hey scottyboy what's up.
I think this just popped up because I haven't noticed it either

[Ali4God]

Its been down towards the bottom for a while now... just hasn't received much attention from anyone.
*Alison*

[Scott]

ah well, at least some of the mods know whats going down :)